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Thread: How Labradors are Supposed to Look? (pics)

  1. #61
    Senior Member whelchel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    I don't mean to pick a fight here, but, is my perception that the West Coast seems to have better conformation in their performance dogs, as a whole, then elsewhere in the country off base? I have in Barracuda Blue and Cuda's Blue Ryder. Then there are the Merganser dogs, for instance.
    I know that you are extremely well versed in labrador knowledge and history, but I think many people may not know that Mergansers has been successful in mixing bench and field lines. I really appreciate the beauty and structure of their dogs (yours is beautiful as well by the way). I think it's a testament that the attributes of both sides can be obtained in as little as 1 - 3 generations. To me, their approach is to use moderate working bench lines (going back to CH Franklins Golden Mandingo??), combined with field lines that have relatively nice structure and/or conformation. I've seen the same approach utilized by other breeders who have similar goals. I really think this approach helps to progress the breed OVERALL. Looking back at all of the pictures in this thread, they don't look entirely different from field lines, but there is some conformation and bone structure that is hardly found in field lines.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Steve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean H View Post
    I doubt that any of the dogs pictured could be and FC or a CH today, much less both.
    What background do you have in field trials to make that statement
    Kelly, Weis, Willingham, & Davies

  3. #63
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whelchel View Post
    I know that you are extremely well versed in labrador knowledge and history, but I think many people may not know that Mergansers has been successful in mixing bench and field lines. I really appreciate the beauty and structure of their dogs (yours is beautiful as well by the way). I think it's a testament that the attributes of both sides can be obtained in as little as 1 - 3 generations. To me, their approach is to use moderate working bench lines (going back to CH Franklins Golden Mandingo??), combined with field lines that have relatively nice structure and/or conformation. I've seen the same approach utilized by other breeders who have similar goals. I really think this approach helps to progress the breed OVERALL. Looking back at all of the pictures in this thread, they don't look entirely different from field lines, but there is some conformation and bone structure that is hardly found in field lines.
    Thank you for the compliment, Ken. Since I last "spoke" Titan went to and passed the Master National. He also QAA'd. He is down in Georgia training along with his kid.

    Hope things are going well in Utah.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  4. #64
    Senior Member Sean H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    What background do you have in field trials to make that statement
    I've only run one minor stake, and the FT purists wouldn't even count the one I ran. My opinion is not based on my experience in FT. Perhaps I was giving FT breeders too much credit (I doubt it)? But I would hope that with 80 years of selective breeding that the breed might have improved????
    Topform's B-2 Spirit MH

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean H View Post
    I've only run one minor stake, and the FT purists wouldn't even count the one I ran. My opinion is not based on my experience in FT. Perhaps I was giving FT breeders too much credit (I doubt it)? But I would hope that with 80 years of selective breeding that the breed might have improved????
    What is a FT purist?
    Why would or how could someone not count the only AA stake you ran?
    What is your opinnon based on?
    Are you saying the field Labrador has not improved in the last 80 years?
    What its prominence suggest, and what all science confirms is that the dog is a creature of the nose- A. Horowitz.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Sean H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losthwy View Post
    What is a FT purist?
    Why would or how could someone not count the only AA stake you ran?
    What is your opinnon based on?
    Are you saying the field Labrador has not improved in the last 80 years?
    I have run one O/H Qualifier that was part of a hunt test. It's my experience that some don't think there should be O/H Qualifiers at hunt tests, and that if you want to QAA your dog, you should do it at a field trial. I don't agree with it, but none the less that opinion is out there. But none of this really matters for this conversation.

    It is my opinion (based upon the practice of selective breeding/artificial selection), that the field Labrador has to have improved in the last 80 years. That's why I don't think that the dogs of 80 years ago could compete with the dogs of today.
    Topform's B-2 Spirit MH

  7. #67
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    I do agree the dogs in 1930 would have a tough time competing today. And there are many who argue a O/H Qual at a HT is easier due, in large part, to less dogs running those events. Personally I would like to see more O/H Quals at FTs.
    What its prominence suggest, and what all science confirms is that the dog is a creature of the nose- A. Horowitz.

  8. #68
    Senior Member ErinsEdge's Avatar
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    And there are many who argue a O/H Qual at a HT is easier due, in large part, to less dogs running those events. Personally I would like to see more O/H Quals at FTs.
    The ones I have worked and have seen are judged the same and can be just as tough because the judges are FT judges. In fact, usually a lot more people don't make it through the first series because it is their first stab at it, and the last series is just as tough.
    Nancy P



    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

  9. #69
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losthwy View Post
    I do agree the dogs in 1930 would have a tough time competing today. And there are many who argue a O/H Qual at a HT is easier due, in large part, to less dogs running those events. Personally I would like to see more O/H Quals at FTs.
    the only thing wrong with that is that you will cut your fields in Quals by half if not more, because the pros would have nowhere to run, except the Open and the derby
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  10. #70
    Senior Member Christa McCoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
    I think that is truly the only way to bridge the gap. Get a whole bunch of moderate dogs and enter in shows. The judges can only put up what they have to judge and if all they have waddles, then that's what we get. Were we to actually try this it would have to be more than a flash in the pan, but week after week at the shows, realizing that it is like throwing money away as the chances are not high of winning. But under the right non-breeder judge I think they would put up a true moderate lab that fit the standard if there were enough entering and not going away. Could very well save our breed from the chasm of type that seem to continue to widen year in and year out.

    Well let me know if that ever happens! I'm in!
    The wise person makes learning a joy. Proverbs 15:2 NLT


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