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Thread: Common Ground?

  1. #11
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Why don'y you try focusing on what it has done instead?
    This should be good.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post

    This should be good.
    Yea, that would be interesting to read!

    Oh, you mean accomplished?

    Let see, he has the American people scared about spending money! The Financial news is doom & gloom. The domestic sale of autos & trucks is slower than it has ever been. People are worried about how much more Health Insurance will cost if the Dems get thier way. Then, there's Cap & Tax, and in general, poor decisions! Lets don't forget all the Czars, bad Cabenit appointments and world apology tour. Lest don't forget about the appointments of Eric Holder and Janet Napolitano.
    Last edited by Franco; 03-06-2010 at 09:59 AM.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  3. #13
    Senior Member dback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    90% of the complaints that I hear about the current administration are for things it hasn't done.
    That right there should give any educated man pause for serious concern as to the circle he runs in.
    "What a difference a week makes. This week I feel like a football coach. Last week I felt like Britney Spears' choreographer."
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  4. #14
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Jeff

    Why don't we focus on the point of the post. Should we deport illegal aliens?

    Does the president still have the power to do it?

    Should we give amnesty?

    Should we open our borders for all to enter unimpeded?

    Every nation has the right to know who is entering their borders, has the right to track them any way they want and deport them at any time with or without cause for whatever reason they want.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  5. #15
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    Jeff

    Why don't we focus on the point of the post. Should we deport illegal aliens?

    Does the president still have the power to do it?

    Should we give amnesty?

    Should we open our borders for all to enter unimpeded?

    Every nation has the right to know who is entering their borders, has the right to track them any way they want and deport them at any time with or without cause for whatever reason they want.
    I believe that the only effective way to prevent illegal immigration is to prevent illegals from being employed. If that happened, illegal immigration would dry up overnight. All other strategies are nothing but political window dressing. The reality is that denial of employment fails because the illegal workers are vital to the businesses they work in and those businesses are vital to our communities. Given that, in my opinion, our options are simple: develop an immigration reform package that meets the needs of our businesses, develop a program of employment based enforcement (e.g., imprisonment of employers/managers that hire illegals in the absence of proof of an effective program to determine status before and uring employment), or learn to live with the consequences of doing nothing.

  6. #16
    Senior Member dback's Avatar
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    It is my understanding that Arizona has the strictest laws in the nation in this regard. I was against these laws initially, however with the programs provided by the state to verify each new hire it has worked quite well. Once a new hire has been verified by the state the burden is removed from the employer. Illegals have left the state in droves (mostly California ). It does appear to have had a significant impact.
    "What a difference a week makes. This week I feel like a football coach. Last week I felt like Britney Spears' choreographer."
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dback View Post
    It is my understanding that Arizona has the strictest laws in the nation in this regard. I was against these laws initially, however with the programs provided by the state to verify each new hire it has worked quite well. Once a new hire has been verified by the state the burden is removed from the employer. Illegals have left the state in droves (mostly California ). It does appear to have had a significant impact.
    That's step 1 - at least those illegals are trying to work -

    step 2 - we put people on the dole into those jobs the illegals were doing, reform our L & I regs to make it harder for the able bodied to claim injury & screw off on the job. Having your belly button rubbing your backbone is a great incentive to work .

    step 3 - go after those illegals in public housing & on the dole - we could start with Obongo's auntie who could afford to donate to his campaign .

    step 4 - get the illegals out of the schools, they can go to school in their own country

    step 5 - clean them out of ER's

    Watch the cost savings roll in .
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  8. #18
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    But Marvin, that's so inhumane...

  9. #19
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    I have seen very little to suggest that illegals are entering our country in droves hoping for welfare. Employers like illegals because they work hard at work few Americans are willing to do and complain little. Generally speaking, those coming here are coming to earn money to send home. That is why they leave when jobs dry up. I think dback's comment underscores what is already known by those who promise to build border walls instead of going after employers. As a former employer of many non-Americans, we employed aliens because they worked well and were happy to do things that Americans rejected such as moving all over the country with almost no notice.

    It did not cost us less to hire aliens, it cost us more to comply with Labor Department requirements. In addition, we spent 10's of thousands per year in legal fees to try to comply with all legal requirements. However, INS made it hard to comply, not easy. Processing delays were often measured in years so that people would go out of status despite doing everything appropriately. Under the law at the time, we could continue employing them but they could not take a job with another employer. If we laid someone off who was out of status, we had to fly them back to their home country.

    Eventually, we hit a point where the incremental cost of hiring an alien was 20-30% more than hiring an American but Americans would not do the work that needed to be done even at higher salaries. Accordingly, we simply stopped pursuing those types of jobs and cut our workforce by 80% Those jobs ended up being outsourced to other countries instead. America lost, India gained. Our average salary at that time was approximately $90,000 per year and we eliminated 80 jobs when we stopped accepting work requiring staff relocation.

  10. #20
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    ...I have seen very little to suggest that illegals are entering our country in droves hoping for welfare. Employers like illegals because they work hard at work few Americans are willing to do and complain little. Generally speaking, those coming here are coming to earn money to send home....
    I couldn't agree more (imagine that). A friend and client of mine has a concrete construction company. Except for his foremen, he hired almost exclusively illegal aliens because they were the only ones who would do the work for reasonable pay. As long as they provided a SS card, they were hired. As soon as the SS office notified him of a duplicate number and he confronted the employee, they were gone. He said it was almost impossible to find legals who would or could do the manual labor the job required even at twice the price. Many prospective employees would rather stay on unemployment than work that hard. Oklahoma has recently passed legislation cracking down on employers who were hiring illegals. This has forced him to use smaller crews at higher wages and higher Workers Comp premiums all of which are passed on to the consumer.
    He and I have had many disagreements over cold ones about this problem and he is a die hard DEM. I always tell him he is a convenient liberal.
    I'm not sure what exactly Oklahoma is doing but it sure put the fear of God in employers and apparently the law is doing as intended.
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