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Thread: Distance

  1. #11

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    That was awesome! As a newbie to training, I learned several valuable lessons from this post. Thank you very much.
    El Matavenados
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    Creamlevel's Shock and Awe "Boomer"

  2. #12
    Senior Member Kasomor's Avatar
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    Thanks Dennis

    Looking forward to seeing the whole article

    Linda

  3. #13
    Junior Member Seaforth's Avatar
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    Thanks Dennis, now go put a stamp on my copy....

    Brad

  4. #14
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    To put these distances in perspective....Marks accurately seen by dogs at over 400 yd are quite incredible when one considers that their vision on average is about 20-70 when compared to ours.

    With that vision, dogs see a 400 yd mark as we (those of us with 20-20 vision) see would see one at 1400 yd,
    A 500 yd Mark would then be 1750 yd or 5250 feet, just a few feet short of a mile. When one couples this with the delay in which the report is heard, the ultra long mark is often past the top of the arc before any attention getting sound is heard.

    At over 400 yd...We in the FT judging community are really pushing the envelope in this regard.

    Good article,

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  5. #15
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    Very interesting Dennis - as I am eagerly awaiting your training alone DVD set and the issue of distance might be covered there, wonder if you have an idea as to the distance a dog should be able to see a dead pigeon? We only use pigeons here and the difficulty of our marks - distance and background is always an isue in our AA trials. So much so that we often rely on the dog running off the leg and hoping for the best!
    If you play their game train the way they train

  6. #16
    Senior Member RetrieversONLINE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmw View Post
    Very interesting Dennis - as I am eagerly awaiting your training alone DVD set and the issue of distance might be covered there, wonder if you have an idea as to the distance a dog should be able to see a dead pigeon? We only use pigeons here and the difficulty of our marks - distance and background is always an isue in our AA trials. So much so that we often rely on the dog running off the leg and hoping for the best!
    In the DVD, I discuss typical distances a bit but mostly, I sure emphasize visibility of birds.

    Re Pigeons: Unfortunately, I am not a fan of pigeons for any long marks. Many "barn" or "feral" pigeons are dark and hard to see against many backgrounds. Additionally, they tend to cause mouthing problems with some dogs when they get wet-beware.

    If they must be used, I would be extremely careful about background, use white streamers on occasion and limit to about 200 yards.

    I have in the past used large racing pigeons that were brownish in colour with white underwings. These are called "ash-red" or mealy by fanciers. Some "blue-bars" are also very good. Such birds are quite useable even up to 300 yards in comparison to dark "feral" pigeons here in North America.
    Dennis

  7. #17
    Senior Member Judy Chute's Avatar
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    Yes, I totally agree...beware of pigeons encouraging mouthing issues. Especially if badly shot/very bloody and or out of a freezer and still frozen, crunchy..sigh.

    A few years ago throwing pigeons for a GRCA WC....a young Golden came to line that had just a little bit of a short attention span. I was throwing and another person shooting. Reached into the bag and picked out a solid white pigeon among the assorted colors. Fairly short grass and it stood out just great...the young guy picked it up and danced back to line to his handler...and did pass to earn his WC at the end of the day.

    I do not have that great of memories with my first Golden...pigeons...GRCA WC. ..and then a JH test, Long Island, NY where "rock pigeons" were used. Could see but a feather sticking out one side...horrid. Finally got it from him....turned to the judge all happy only to be told...."sorry".. Gun came in at end, "great marking dog you have there".

    Long, long Ferry and car ride back to Maine.

    Just my humble opinion of pigeons regards,

    Judy

  8. #18
    Senior Member Keith Stroyan's Avatar
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    I'm not a field trial guy. Nothing against it, I just don't enjoy the competition part. But Dennis' article is great on why I might want to train long anyhow. (I should renew my subscription.)

    On Pigeons:
    Years ago I was running a club "open" with a dog I still love long since she's gone, but who was hard to handle and marginally hard mouth at best. I was in the final series with the local AFC and my dog ran the water blind of her life. She came back really happy with a wet pigeon in her mouth. When I reached down to take the bird, she bit it in half.

    I know the judge wanted to give the win to the AFC anyway, so I said, "well, that makes your job easier."

    I like pigeons for upland tests, but I don't like to use them with young dogs, and wet pigeons are trouble at any age...

  9. #19
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    Don't like pigeons either - they definitley can cause hard mouth problems - espcially with Versatiles but we have no choice here. However, I use bumper boys for training and once a dog knows how to handle a pigeon and will retrieve properly to hand (FF) then don't use them for training - seems to work most of the time but a soggy pigeon is pretty horrid and hard to blame the dog sometimes if it is damaged.
    If you play their game train the way they train

  10. #20
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    has anyone ever done a drill where the bird is placed in the AOF and then gone through all the motions (gunner movement, noise, shots) and had the gunner fake the throw?
    Yes

    Marks accurately seen by dogs at over 400 yd are quite incredible when one considers that their vision on average is about 20-70 when compared to ours.
    I read this years ago. I cannot believe that 20-70 or whatever the experts claim, is the average for our field trial dogs. The good markers can flat out see. I believe when we're doing selective breeding for field trial dogs that one of the qualities we're breeding for is exceptional canine vision.

    What do you think John?
    Last edited by Howard N; 03-15-2010 at 12:40 AM.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

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