The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 55

Thread: Obama on Fox

  1. #21
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    You're absolutely right. Things are different. THIS president who is claiming to have a mandate, actually won with a majority of the popular vote!

    And what's different about a president wanting to push his agenda? Surely you don't think this is the first president to push his agenda?? I think it's happened some 40-odd times in the past.

    What was a historical oddity was a president who was seated by the supreme court for one term, and winning with a minority of the popular vote (that by itself has happened before) AND using recess appointments, reconciliation, and other parlimentary tactics to "shove policy down our throats" (to paraphrase UB) clearly against the will of the American citizenry. That was the closest we've become to functioning as a monarchy since the day George Washington walked away from D.C. to return to Mt. Vernon, and set the tone for presidents NOT ruling by edict.
    That break only lasted an hour and 22 minutes.

  2. #22
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    7,072

    Default

    You lefties just can't get over your Bush Derangement Syndrome. Come on, he's gone, get over it. Even Obambi is still whining about his "inherited" problems. Time to man up, stop whining about the past and admit you elected a dolt who is on the fast track to ruining our country.
    Bill Davis

  3. #23
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Berlin, WI
    Posts
    10,703

    Default

    It gets pretty old hearing and reading day after day...."but Bush did it!!"

    Again like little kids...."heeee staarrteed it!!"
    (I thought this was all about CHANGE not more of the same only worse)

    Pretty lame argument to support the stuff going on in Washington.

    Can any of you leftys (including YOU Dave) explain the arrogance?
    Can any of you give 1 reason why we don't get straight answers on the biggest peice of legislation (spending) since FDR??

    We have questions, if the effort is legitimate, answer them honestly.
    When the guy can NOT give a straight answer to a simple question about HIS bill, it begs closer scrutiny and more doubt!!

    It would be that way with anyone you did business with, especially with the kind of money involved that's involved here.

    Maybe you leftys are right, maybe this is the right thing to do, but the way your people are going about it is disgusting and cheap.
    Not professional at all.

    But you know what, maybe you Leftys are wrong......then what??
    Who will pay for this?


    We all will..........





    rk
    Stan b & Elvis

  4. #24
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Yardley, PA
    Posts
    6,639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    It gets pretty old hearing and reading day after day...."but Bush did it!!"

    Again like little kids...."heeee staarrteed it!!"
    (I thought this was all about CHANGE not more of the same only worse)

    Pretty lame argument to support the stuff going on in Washington.

    Can any of you leftys (including YOU Dave) explain the arrogance?
    Can any of you give 1 reason why we don't get straight answers on the biggest peice of legislation (spending) since FDR??

    We have questions, if the effort is legitimate, answer them honestly.
    When the guy can NOT give a straight answer to a simple question about HIS bill, it begs closer scrutiny and more doubt!!

    It would be that way with anyone you did business with, especially with the kind of money involved that's involved here.

    Maybe you leftys are right, maybe this is the right thing to do, but the way your people are going about it is disgusting and cheap.
    Not professional at all.

    But you know what, maybe you Leftys are wrong......then what??
    Who will pay for this?


    We all will..........





    rk
    Bush only entered into this one because of Bon's comment that Obama was "different" than prior Presidents in running up deficits. As to arrogance and refusing to answer questions, I saw nothing surprising in the brief parts of the interview I saw. Baier wanted to talk about the illegitimate process being used to ram legislation down the throats of a public that wants nothing to do with health care reform and the President wanted to talk about the benefits of health care reform and the millions of people that want it. Baier's questions fell largely into the category of "When did you stop beating your wife?"

    I was actually waiting for the President to point out that another word that can be used to describe the legislative tactics being used to consider the bill is called "majority vote." The reality is that the details of the bills under consideration have been spelled out in tremendous detail. What has not been spelled out are peripheral changes that may be made in putting together the final voting coalition or to ensure that the bill does not increase the deficit. That makes this bill like almost all that have preceded it in Congress.

    It has been indicated that the bill will include a two part approach: adoption of the Senate bill as passed along with a bill that reconciles key differences between the Senate bill and the President's proposal. These two components will be adopted in a single bill that allows the Senate bill to become law only if the reconciling differences are adopted as well. This avoids having the Senate bill go into law "as is" including some elements that are unacceptable in the House (e.g., the Nelson change) and to the President. Writing a new bill would also open the door to a Senate filibuster, while accepting the Senate bill that was adopted by a vote of 60-39, and handling the modifications through reconciliation allows only the changes to be addressed in the reconciliation process which is subject to simple majority vote.

    Republicans oppose this process for only one reason: it makes it harder for them to stop passage. As has been shown repeatedly in the process, all of their principled arguments would disappear in a heartbeat if it served their own purposes as was the case with tax cuts, the Medicare prescription program (and particularly the provisions that force Medicare to pay more for drugs than is paid by other insurance programs), welfare reform, etc. Even when discussing an approach that was a blatant violation of Senate rules to force the appointment of 10 justices opposed by Democrats, Republicans chose to describe that option as the "Constitutional" option because it supported a majority vote instead for the super majority required by Senate rules. So maybe the approach for looking at the tactics being used for health care should be the same. Let's have a "Constitutional" vote where a majority of the Senate (VP as tie breaker) can adopt legislation.

    If filibuster is to be the answer for all issues, it may be time to end it. Lindsay Graham, whom I respect a lot, said that using this approach for passing health care reform would undermine any future efforts to obtain bi-partisan cooperation. What he didn't address is the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that efforts to obtain bi-partisan cooperation have done any good to date. If there had been some, his warning might hold more weight.

  5. #25
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Royse City, TX
    Posts
    5,157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    ...."majority vote....."
    They apparently don't have a majority or they would have voted instead of arm twisting and deal making. And what about the majority in every poll taken that shows americans do not want this crap shoved down their throats. America is fast becoming tired of this lying incompetent nucklehead of a president and his band of cronies who are trying to make history for themselves.
    M&K's HR UH Tucker of Texoma JH
    M&K's SHR Prime Black Angus
    M&K's Miss Jessie Girl JH
    Sir Jacob of Lakeview-Jake
    Freeway JYD

    Mike Whitworth

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,245

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs
    As has been shown repeatedly in the process, all of their principled arguments would disappear in a heartbeat if it served their own purposes as was the case with tax cuts, the Medicare prescription program (and particularly the provisions that force Medicare to pay more for drugs than is paid by other insurance programs), welfare reform, etc. Even when discussing an approach that was a blatant violation of Senate rules to force the appointment of 10 justices opposed by Democrats, Republicans chose to describe that option as the "Constitutional" option because it supported a majority vote instead for the super majority required by Senate rules. So maybe the approach for looking at the tactics being used for health care should be the same. Let's have a "Constitutional" vote where a majority of the Senate (VP as tie breaker) can adopt legislation.
    You do realize this is a two way street. I'm sure you saw the videos and clips of the major democratic players all saying how horrible this is. And Biden going as far as to say he would never use it? Or was his hope and change just a campaign slogan (say it isn't so)

  7. #27
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Yardley, PA
    Posts
    6,639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eildydar View Post
    You do realize this is a two way street. I'm sure you saw the videos and clips of the major democratic players all saying how horrible this is. And Biden going as far as to say he would never use it? Or was his hope and change just a campaign slogan (say it isn't so)
    Interestingly, the videos I have seen are talking about the Republican "nuclear option" in judicial appointments. If you look at what was being proposed at that time, there is no comparison whatsoever. They were not proposing to use reconciliation -- which would have been explicitly excluded by Senate rules -- but the backdoor approach of having the chair simply declare that the rules did not apply knowing that a majority vote would then uphold the ruling of the chair. However, the reality is that every time the reconciliation process has been used -- 17 times by Republicans and 6 times by Democrats -- those in the minority have objected. What a surprise. Now some of those are trying to pretend that this time is different because......... Once again, what a surprise. The fact is that reconciliation has been used repeatedly to force majority votes on issues that cost more, produced bigger deficits, and made massive changes in fundamental policy that were no more related to the budget process than health care reform. What does that tell us? Basically, that if a majority of Senators feel strongly enough about an issue they will find a way to make it happen. Over time, Republicans have been much more likely to make that decision than Democrats. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.

  8. #28
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Pa
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    You lefties just can't get over your Bush Derangement Syndrome. Come on, he's gone, get over it. Even Obambi is still whining about his "inherited" problems. Time to man up, stop whining about the past and admit you elected a dolt who is on the fast track to ruining our country.
    More like you righties can't accept responsibility for your actions, and would rather brush the Bush catastrophe under the rug! Ain't that easy, we're still paying for it. My tax guy just gave me a little reminder of the Bush years, despite his tax cuts, my bill is pretty damn big! But then again, bush has us paying his taxes, and all his filthy rich buddies taxes for them!
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #29
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Pa
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    It gets pretty old hearing and reading day after day...."but Bush did it!!"

    Again like little kids...."heeee staarrteed it!!"
    (I thought this was all about CHANGE not more of the same only worse)

    Pretty lame argument to support the stuff going on in Washington.

    Can any of you leftys (including YOU Dave) explain the arrogance?
    Can any of you give 1 reason why we don't get straight answers on the biggest peice of legislation (spending) since FDR??

    We have questions, if the effort is legitimate, answer them honestly.
    When the guy can NOT give a straight answer to a simple question about HIS bill, it begs closer scrutiny and more doubt!!

    It would be that way with anyone you did business with, especially with the kind of money involved that's involved here.

    Maybe you leftys are right, maybe this is the right thing to do, but the way your people are going about it is disgusting and cheap.
    Not professional at all.

    But you know what, maybe you Leftys are wrong......then what??
    Who will pay for this?


    We all will..........





    rk
    First, just because I'm to the left of you, doesn't make me a "lefty"!

    Second, I can't and won't explain arrogance for Obama nor anyone else.

    Third, this piece of legislation is only a trillion dollars or so SMALLER than Bush's tax cuts! So it is NOT the biggest piece of legislation since FDR. And if you want to say that Bush's bill was a tax CUT, it was not. It merely was a cut for the extreme rich, while YOU and ME, and our progeny get to shoulder the burden, while Bush and his buds go fishing in K-port on million dollar yachts.

    Why are righties allowed to constantly reference FDR, but nobody else is allowed to reference the mess Bush made of this country??
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  10. #30
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Pa
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    That break only lasted an hour and 22 minutes.
    Please don't burden yourself with monitored my schedule. You wouldn't like it!

    But PLEASE feel free to comment on the subject matter, especially Bush using parliamentary tactics (the same ones the dems are being attacked for by the very people who used them under Bush) after winning by a popular MINORITY of votes. You know, since it was mentioned that Obama had the audacity to claim a mandate after winning with over a 10 million vote margin.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •