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Thread: November

  1. #31
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    "I also have a healthcare plan that would save the average family $2,500 on their premiums" - Barack Milhous Obama

    I'll just sit back and wait for my premium reduction notice in the mail. I'm sure it will come in the mail next week like the President promised.
    Perhaps you prefer a 20-40% increase, or outright cancellation? The largest portion of newly uninsured are working middle-class, not street bums or billionaires.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  2. #32
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    You can look for the rate increases to start immediately to help offset the unknowns the future has to offer for perexisting conditions and the carriers inability to decline acceptance of uninsurables who apply. for coverage. It's going to be interesting. One question I have is if the insurance companies can rate up an individual based on their medical history.Uninsurable risk pools in most states charge very high rates compared to what is available in the standard market. These pools are subsidized by the premiums charged and the balance of the losses being absorbed by the carriers who underwrite business in that state. I have several questions that I'm sure have not been addressed by the "experts" in DC.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    You can look for the rate increases to start immediately to help offset the unknowns the future has to offer for perexisting conditions and the carriers inability to decline acceptance of uninsurables who apply. for coverage. It's going to be interesting. One question I have is if the insurance companies can rate up an individual based on their medical history.Uninsurable risk pools in most states charge very high rates compared to what is available in the standard market. These pools are subsidized by the premiums charged and the balance of the losses being absorbed by the carriers who underwrite business in that state. I have several questions that I'm sure have not been addressed by the "experts" in DC.
    The insurance companies will love it. Now they can claim an excuse for 20-40% premium increases that were going to be implemented anyway.

  4. #34
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The insurance companies will love it. Now they can claim an excuse for 20-40% premium increases that were going to be implemented anyway.
    The insurance companies haven't shown us their cards yet. I doubt our wildest imaginations can predict the stunts that will be enacted in the coming months and years to prevent losses while complying with the new bill. Surcharges for everything, (akin to baggage fees charged by airlines), intentional and welcomed unintentional delays in care and claim processing, and a-la-carte policies too confusing to navigate, just to name a few guesses. How about -900 numbers for claims service and customer service calls billed to your phone? The examples Jeff gave from years ago will be the tip of the creative iceberg!
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  5. #35
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The insurance companies will love it. Now they can claim an excuse for 20-40% premium increases that were going to be implemented anyway.

    This has been on my mind for some time now. You can expect every single increase instituted from this day forward to be blamed on the Democrats.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    The insurance companies haven't shown us their cards yet. I doubt our wildest imaginations can predict the stunts that will be enacted in the coming months and years to prevent losses while complying with the new bill. Surcharges for everything, (akin to baggage fees charged by airlines), intentional and welcomed unintentional delays in care and claim processing, and a-la-carte policies too confusing to navigate, just to name a few guesses. How about -900 numbers for claims service and customer service calls billed to your phone? The examples Jeff gave from years ago will be the tip of the creative iceberg!

    They will be inviting medicare for everyone.
    Last edited by Buzz; 03-23-2010 at 08:46 PM.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The insurance companies will love it. Now they can claim an excuse for 20-40% premium increases that were going to be implemented anyway.
    Yes, the surviving few will love it because they will no longer be risk bearers. They will just administer the single payor system for the government. The single payor system is what really passed this weekend. It's just going to take a little longer to get there but when the carriers realize they cannot possibly make a profit under this system, they will drop like flies.Oh, by the way, does anyone have this "list" of 1300 companies that write health insurance? It's much closer to 13.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    Yes, the surviving few will love it because they will no longer be risk bearers. They will just administer the single payor system for the government.
    Bingo. What you describe is close to what TriCare is for the military. A single-payor, privately administered gov't funded system. Either that will (d)evolve, or a two-tiered system will emerge, which may be a way to provide for the masses, and allow those who want designer waiting rooms (where you don't have to wait!)
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  8. #38
    Senior Member J Hoggatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Loeffelholz View Post
    You've got it too easy.......all you have to do is write: fear, hate, lies....on your hand like Sarah Palin and you have all the talking points of the neo-con's
    You are correct Bruce---

    FEAR - that are country's debt load is out of control............

    HATE - Hate the our government is no longer for the people by the people- when congress goes against the will of the people.

    LIES - Obama - no middle class tax hikes, for one. Hope and Change - everything will be on CSPAN - etc....

    IT IS EASY........ This administration is corrupt as Nixon was paranoid. - Save this and re-read is about 5 years.. Mail it back to me with an apology how wrong you were.

    Isn't amazing how a one term US Senator - who voted present more often than voted yes or no - NEVER served in ANY executive position - public or private sector - gets elected to President of the United State. -- AND what is REALLY Sad --- That my Son and My Son-in-Law have to call this " " Commander and Chief --- he had to be shown how to properly salute.................
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The rules were the same. The shenanigans were different. Cases in point:
    • welfare reform -- which I supported -- was passed entirely through reconciliation. This was a massive rewrite of Federal laws that had been standing for 60 years. How was reconciliation appropriate as a tool?
    • 2001 tax cuts -- which I opposed -- were passed while PayGo rules were still in place. Those rules prohibited passage of programs that created significant deficits beyond a 10 years period. To overcome this limitation, all the tax cuts were structured to sunset after 10 years laying the framework for the largest tax increase in history.
    • 2003 tax cuts -- which I opposed -- were passed after PayGo rules were rescinded but using reconciliation and a vote of 50 Republicans plus the VP to pass. Reconciliation is not supposed to be used except for actions that reduce deficits. Hard to say about a program that increased the deficit by almost $400 billion (the administration had sought $750 billion but a couple of moderates held out).
    • Medicare Prescription program -- which I supported in concept but opposed because of the way it was structured -- was passed through reconciliation despite the fact that it represented a net increase in Medicare trust fund deficits of more than $500 billion with no offsetting source of revenues.
    Obviously, Republicans were outraged by the adoption of the Senate bill by a 60 vote majority. How undemocratic! Their one consolation was that they knew the House opposed the bill as adopted and were confident that it would never be ratified without amendments that would force a new vote in the Senate.

    In the interim, Brown was elected and the Dems lost their 60 vote edge. It looked like the Dems might use the period prior to searing in Brown to pass a modified bill, but Obama said that he would not support such passage until after Brown was sworn in. Unlike the situation in Minnesota, where Republican protests prevented Franken from being seated, Dems allowed Brown to take his seat even before the election had passed all hurdles for certification in Massachusetts. It could easily have been held up for as much as a couple of months, allowing a bill to pass. Would Bush and a Republican controlled Congress have taken advantage of that opportunity? I leave that answer to you.

    So what did the Democrats do? When they first decided to consider reconciliation, numerous Democratic member said that anything done had to conform with a strict interpretation of the rules since they did not want the types of distortions that had been supported in the past. They sat with the parliamentarians to determine the limits of those rules and then began to craft a deal based on acceptance of the Senate bill into law with fixes using reconciliation. Health reform is not being adopted through reconciliation. It has already been adopted. The reconciliation process was to be used for modifications that would change the timing and structure of revenue sources, eliminate some of the special deals, etc., with each change being measured against a rule requiring that it help reduce the deficit and that it be related to financing.

    Initially the fixes were to be passed as part of the same bill as the adoption of the Senate bill using "deem and pass." This "radical" procedural move had only been used to pass 20-30% of all rule changes when the House was under Republican control from Newt Gingrich on. The Senate parliamentarian said that the Senate bill had to actually become law before reconciliation could be used to change it and Republicans expressed outrage over efforts to link the bill and the changes together. Democrats backed down and adopted the Senate bill as is and then took a separate vote on the fixes. Blah, blah, blabbity blah. You could have saved a lot of typing by just writing, "Yes, Hew, you're right...I do have a nakedly partisan double-standard and I think that when the Democrats force their will in Congress it should be said they're just "following rules to the letter" and when the Republicans do it it should be called "parliamentary tricks." BTW, all those "parliamentary tricks" that you gripe about (only when the Repbulicans use them, of course) were taught to the Republicans during 40+ years of Democrat iron-fisted rule of Congress.

    My question to you is where is the abuse of the process? From a personal perspective, my major complaint is that the Democrats are fighting with 12 ounce gloves while Republicans are using brass knuckles. I assume by "personal perspective," you mean, "as a de facto apparatchik for the Democrat party who must first remove his pom-poms before typing...." I mean, really, what more can be said when you offer some lame, semantics-twisting defense of Obama's broken campaign promise that the "public will have five days to look at every bill that lands on my desk."

    ......................
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    The largest portion of newly uninsured are working middle-class, not street bums or billionaires.
    Got link? That flies in the face of the uninsured demographics that I've read which claim that about two thirds of the uninsured are low income.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

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