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Thread: Is health-care reform constitutional?

  1. #31
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Actually, nothing in the legislation mandates that you buy insurance. However, if you do not you are subject to a tax. Employers face a mandate which is justified by interstate commerce considerations. States do not force a mandate but lose Federal funding if they do not go along. I think that a successful challenge is highly unlikely. However, the Court has become so political that anything is possible.

    Yeah that is NOTHING like making you buy something. Kind of like a guy walking into a bank with a gun is not making anyone put money in his bag. You don;t have to but he will shoot you if you don't. Heck no forcing there
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  2. #32
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    This is a definition of nationalization:

    Nationalization, also spelled nationalisation, is the act of taking an industry or assets into the public ownership of a national government or state.

    Where specifically is anything of this nature contained in the bill?

    Ha Ha...you funny!!



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  3. #33
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    How's this for an example? My company purchased its health insurance through Guardian for a period of several years when we received notice that services in the future would be provided through a joint venture of by Guardian (providing hospital coverage) and HealthNet (providing major medical). There were some problems in transition, but it stabilized. After two years we received another notice that the joint venture was being terminated and that responsibility for our coverage would come through HealthNet in the future. This was followed by a letter of non-renewal. At the same time we received a letter saying that the renewal letter would be coming from HealthNet and asking us to be patient. It also said that all future premium payments needed to be sent to HealthNet and that we would receive an invoice. No invoice or renewal letter came prior to the renewal date. Repeated phone calls went unanswered. Guardian indicated that they could not accept premium payment because the joint venture had been dissolved.

    Five weeks following the renewal date we received a letter from HealthNet stating that all coverage had been terminated effective as of the prior renewal date because of "non-payment of premium" and a decision not to renew policies with small businesses. At its annual meeting that year, HealthNet announced the successful strategy they had followed to terminate coverage for unprofitable small business accounts and awarded a bonus to the staff person who had come up with the idea.

    To rub salt in the wound, the fact that the cancellation was made retroactive meant that everyone covered had been without coverage for more than 30 days. Given my own medical problems, I went without insurance for four months until I managed to join an association plan during an open enrollment period. Everyone else obtained policies but with prior condition exclusions.
    I'm certainly not going to dispute what happened to your company. I will say that -without knowing the details- it is illegal. Guardian Healthnet is still writing business in your neck of the woods so what happened was not as a result of their going out of business or cancelling a block of business which is generally the only way a company can cancel coverage. I'm curious what the Complaint Department of your State Insurance Department had to say about this action.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    I'm certainly not going to dispute what happened to your company. I will say that -without knowing the details- it is illegal. Guardian Healthnet is still writing business in your neck of the woods so what happened was not as a result of their going out of business or canceling a block of business which is generally the only way a company can cancel coverage. I'm curious what the Complaint Department of your State Insurance Department had to say about this action.
    What they did was to withdraw from writing policies as a joint venture in NJ according to the correspondence they sent us. That was done in 2007. Our policy was specifically written under NJ's small business program which mandates community rating for companies with fewer than 11 employees. Following cancellation, I gave all affected employees the amount of money that I would otherwise have contributed to their coverage and canceled the company plan altogether. I was the only one who was not able to obtain coverage at a lower price through NJ Blue Cross bith because I, unlike my staff, lived in PA and because of medical exclusions. I formed a separate company for my photography business to buy coverage for myself. I was initially denied coverage because of medical history (stroke, etc.), but joined the Chamber of Commerce and bought my policy through them during open enrollment. I considered filing a complaint against HealthNet but did not since everyone actually saved money and improved their coverage by not using them.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    What we have with this program is a rare situation. A President and Congressional majority were elected and did, with respect to health care, exactly whast they said they would do as the most important part of their proposed political agenda. How dare they!


    You mean the registered voters who actually went to the polls instead of staying home to cry about the world?

    in a sense, that is true. but i would also be willing to bet that this was the most uninformed electorate in history. my son said kids were all out screaming and honking horns in the college apt. complex he lives in after the Obama was announced as the winner. many were his friends, and he knows well how little they stay informed. record numbers of lower educated and lower socioeconomic people went out and voted because they knew that Obama was going to increase their entitlements. he said it all along - spread the wealth.

    when you rob peter to pay paul you can always count on paul's vote. and allow all the illegal paul's to vote and you get more votes.

    liberalism is killing this country.

  6. #36
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    I considered filing a complaint against HealthNet but did not since everyone actually saved money and improved their coverage by not using them.
    I wish you had done that. Insurance Departments are generally pretty good at riding herd on companies trying to pull a fast one like this appears. If they cancelled a block of business, I'm suprised it wasn't brought to the department's or for that matter the press' attention by someone affected. Most states don't allow companies to laser out a block of unprofitable business while continuing to write business under another name.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    I wish you had done that. Insurance Departments are generally pretty good at riding herd on companies trying to pull a fast one like this appears. If they cancelled a block of business, I'm suprised it wasn't brought to the department's or for that matter the press' attention by someone affected. Most states don't allow companies to laser out a block of unprofitable business while continuing to write business under another name.
    My assumption was that they had simply stopped writing business as a joint venture in NJ. You probably know that better than I. They did discuss their "successful" strategy for withdrawing from the small company market at their next annual meeting, crediting it with having increased profits by several million as they awarded a special bonus to the staff person who developed the technique that was used. I have actually worked with a lot of health insurance companies over time and considered HealthNet to be by far the worst.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    My assumption was that they had simply stopped writing business as a joint venture in NJ. You probably know that better than I. They did discuss their "successful" strategy for withdrawing from the small company market at their next annual meeting, crediting it with having increased profits by several million as they awarded a special bonus to the staff person who developed the technique that was used. I have actually worked with a lot of health insurance companies over time and considered HealthNet to be by far the worst.
    I've represented most of the major players over the years but have not had the "pleasure" of using Healthnet.
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