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View Poll Results: controlled break or verbally restraining the dog?

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  • drop the team because the handler spoke to the dog before dog was released

    60 36.14%
  • carry the team with stern warning

    106 63.86%
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Thread: controlled break poll

  1. #1
    Senior Member Juli H's Avatar
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    Default controlled break poll

    It is hard to keep track of everyone's opinions on the 'controlled break' thread...

    so...

    if a sr handler speaks to his dog because he 'feels' the dog is about to break (even tho the dog is NOT making forward movement), do you as a judge drop the dog or carry the dog with appropriate 'penalty'. .. the dog may be 'dancing', may be standing, may be whining..whatever...the bottom line is that the dog has NOT made forward movement.

    arm chair judging, regards.

    Juli
    Last edited by Juli H; 04-27-2010 at 12:54 PM.
    God answers prayers all the time. Even the ones we don't know we asked. God is Good (always)

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    One is as though nothing is a miracle.
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  2. #2
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    To me if the hunting dog is steady, even if I have to verbally remind him, with all the guns going off, how is my vocalization going to scare away the ducks?? Safety first, talking to the dog should not be scored zero in senior. That's my opinion, but then again who am I??

  3. #3
    Senior Member troy schwab's Avatar
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    Being a newbie..... I prolly should keep my mouth shut, but here goes. If the rule clearly states no talking to the dog after bird was called. Then you have no choice but to drop them....... I think in the original post, if the handler would have waited for the dog to break (move forward), then said something...... then so be it.... it is a controlled break. I dont agree with this rule, but you need rules, and they are what they are. JMO

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    what does the Rule Book say?
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  5. #5
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    I primarily run (and judge) HRC but I have run and trained a dog to the Master level and have to "bite my tongue" every time I run and AKC H/T. I have been verbally "warned" several times while running AKC H/T's because of saying "Sit" while the birds are in the air as a force of habit (as you can do in HRC). It has been a while since I have read the AKC H/T rules and I know that you can't talk to your dog after signalling ready and/or until the judges have called 'Dog' (or the dog's #). I personally think it would be a crying shame to drop a dog cause the handler spoke to the dog (if the dog was steady and not making any forward motion). I'm sure that it certainly would be within the judge's right to drop the dog and that "rules are rules", but that would certainly make for a bad day at the line. Now, forward motion while speaking is a whole other deal....CB indeed.
    Even a blind dog will find a duck every now and then...!!!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Juli H's Avatar
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    Chapter 5, paragraph 11
    In senior and master hunting tests a handler shall not hold or touch a dog to keep it steady, or verbally restrain a dog online, except in extraordinary circumstances, from the time the first bird is thrown until the dog's number is called. Violation of any of the provisions of this paragraph is sufficient cause to justify a grade of '0' in trainability.

    Juli
    God answers prayers all the time. Even the ones we don't know we asked. God is Good (always)

    "There are only two ways to live your life.
    One is as though nothing is a miracle.
    The other is as though everything is a miracle."

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  7. #7
    Senior Member Juli H's Avatar
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    what are extraordinary circumstances?
    God answers prayers all the time. Even the ones we don't know we asked. God is Good (always)

    "There are only two ways to live your life.
    One is as though nothing is a miracle.
    The other is as though everything is a miracle."

    - Albert Einstein

  8. #8
    Senior Member Frenchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juli H View Post
    Chapter 5, paragraph 11
    In senior and master hunting tests a handler shall not hold or touch a dog to keep it steady, or verbally restrain a dog online, except in extraordinary circumstances, from the time the first bird is thrown until the dog's number is called. Violation of any of the provisions of this paragraph is sufficient cause to justify a grade of '0' in trainability.

    Juli
    That's only part of the story. The rule book is a lot longer that that one quote, as is evident by the 200+ posts in the other thread.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Juli H's Avatar
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    Frenchy,

    please post the parts of the rule book that directly apply to this...I am not going to go through the entire thing....This rule specifically speaks to the issue at hand...the use of verbal restraint.


    the rule states you cannot hold, touch or speak to a dog to keep it steady...

    a fun debate it is...and will continue to be..

    Juli
    God answers prayers all the time. Even the ones we don't know we asked. God is Good (always)

    "There are only two ways to live your life.
    One is as though nothing is a miracle.
    The other is as though everything is a miracle."

    - Albert Einstein

  10. #10
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    I was wondering about this, my answer was based on what I would want, not what the rules want.

    I was at a Senior hunt test and this one dog was steady, up to the point the judge called for the dog, in doing so the dog took off, handler controlled the dog and re-sent. If the handler had just let the dog go he would have been fine, but since he controlled the dog back to heel he was scored as a "Controlled Break", let the buyer beware!

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