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View Poll Results: controlled break or verbally restraining the dog?

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  • drop the team because the handler spoke to the dog before dog was released

    60 36.14%
  • carry the team with stern warning

    106 63.86%
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Thread: controlled break poll

  1. #11
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    I love how people want to interpret the rule book in such a way to help their situation...

    Maybe we should have another poll that asks that if the dog did the same thing in a Master test and the handler said nothing should the dog be dropped for a controled break. What the dog did has no bearing on why the person was dropped. The person was dropped because they had a brain fart and opened their mouth before the judge said "DOG".
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    since he controlled the dog back to heel he was scored as a "Controlled Break",
    I am wondering how the dog could have a controlled break if he was already released by the judges?
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  3. #13
    Senior Member Clay Warren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    I am wondering how the dog could have a controlled break if he was already released by the judges?
    I was wondering the same thing.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Julie, in your poll you have carry the team with a stern warning as a choice. Why the stern warning? The handler should know he said something to the dog. I might remind him he had a controlled break but it wouldn't be a stern warning.

    Kinda sounds like you're chewing his a**.
    Last edited by Howard N; 04-27-2010 at 01:54 PM.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  5. #15
    Senior Member Frenchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juli H View Post
    Frenchy,

    please post the parts of the rule book that directly apply to this...I am not going to go through the entire thing....This rule specifically speaks to the issue at hand...the use of verbal restraint.


    the rule states you cannot hold, touch or speak to a dog to keep it steady...

    a fun debate it is...and will continue to be..

    Juli
    My thoughts are here with the parts of the rules I'm using to form my judgment....

    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...&postcount=189

    I'm still judging this dog. I don't believe I've seen sufficient evidence that this dog lacks the skills of a senior hunter, and as a Senior judge that is my primary responsibility.

  6. #16

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    Why a controlled break is allowed in any venue or test is beyond comprehension anyway. If the dog breaks,you're out. Period. This is a TEST. Allowing a controlled break isn't much of a test.
    Tony.

  7. #17
    Junior Member milo23222's Avatar
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    I am new to all of this but if the the handler called for the bird the rule says you can not talk to your dog AT ALL. Just because the dog stood up does not mean he was going to break handler error point blank!!!!

  8. #18
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    I voted to carry them, but obviously each scenario would have to be judged on it's specific set of circumstances. Someone asked "what's extrordinary circumstances?", I would add the question, "what is verbally restraining"? A quiet "sit", or having to raise one's voice threateningly? Another point of debate may be how can a controlled break be allowed, if it requires a verbal command (restraint) to bring the dog under "control"? Doesn't one allowance in the rules sort of violate the other? Of course judges must follow the rules, but within their discretion, there will surely be some variation amongst different judges. Again withing the regs, I think anything that a hunting buddy would say to his dog as ducks were lighting to restrain him, that you wouldn't mind while sitting next to him, would be ok.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #19
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    I'm a rookie, never even been to a field trial, but I'll say this. In every sport or competition there are rules and there are judges to interpret those rules. It's always subjective at times. What I have always thought was most important was consistency. If a judge calls it the same way every time then its up to the handler to know a little about the judge and handle the dog accordingly. On the other hand, if the judge calls it differently on different occasions, then he/she is a problem.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    I am wondering how the dog could have a controlled break if he was already released by the judges?
    I was sitting with the judges (collecting birds) and that is what they said, does not mean later they changed their mind, but since he told the dog no, and brought it back to heel.... The judges both stated since he did that it was a controlled break, that was what the judges told the handler at the end of the first test.

    I'm not always capturing things correctly (one of the good things about being a newbie). The dog broke the same time the judge said "Dog".

    So thats my story, Just how I perceived it.

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