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View Poll Results: controlled break or verbally restraining the dog?

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  • drop the team because the handler spoke to the dog before dog was released

    60 36.14%
  • carry the team with stern warning

    106 63.86%
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Thread: controlled break poll

  1. #51
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    I also find it "funny" that there seems to be a major distinction in the minds of many people between a "HRC controlled break", and an "AKC controlled break".

    It makes them say things like;
    "In HRC, that wouldn't be a controlled break. But, in AKC it is."

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    I also find it "funny" that there seems to be a major distinction in the minds of many people between a "HRC controlled break", and an "AKC controlled break".

    It makes them say things like;
    "In HRC, that wouldn't be a controlled break. But, in AKC it is."
    In the original post the question was about a SR dog ...It doesn't apply to HRC....I don't run HRC but as I understand their rules , you can talk to the dog as the birds are going down...that is like an AKC honor in the hunt test game...There is no controlled break when the dog is in the honor box of a master event ....He either broke or didn't ...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  3. #53
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Wait SR is HRC equals Started Retriever, SH (Senior hunter) dog would relate to AKC, So confusing when threads come back 2-3 years later
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH-I HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast) Rip. July-2014
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    HR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  4. #54
    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    Paradox, I think that is what I wore when I was in the insurance business.
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

  5. #55
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    ...There is no controlled break when the dog is in the honor box of a master event ....He either broke or didn't ...
    Right.

    And in the eyes of almost half of the people that have voted in the above poll, there isn't any such thing as a controlled break in a senior event either.
    There is a problem with that.

  6. #56
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    In the master , yes ...remember the op said a SR....Senior are allowed a control break..like it or not , right or wrong ...One is allowed...If on the 2nd series you are talking to the dog again ...sorry ..you were probably told in the first you have used your control break....Steve S
    Ah, I missed that detail, MY BAD

    SO I looked again at the rule cause I couldn't remember a provision for one controlled break and actually... It's a judgment call in SH.

    Consistency is still of utmost importance IMO.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 01-17-2013 at 06:15 PM.
    Darrin Greene

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Wait SR is HRC equals Started Retriever, SH (Senior hunter) dog would relate to AKC, So confusing when threads come back 2-3 years later
    The Sr was describing the handler..not a dog...so I assumed it was also a senior dog.. I guess we need to be more specific when posting to give out the exact info we want.....by the way in AKC a jr dog is(should be ) on lead and can't break...What is the process of a started dog in HRC..? Steve S
    Last edited by steve schreiner; 01-17-2013 at 06:33 PM.
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    Ah, I missed that detail, MY BAD

    SO I looked again at the rule cause I couldn't remember a provision for one controlled break and actually... It's a judgment call in SH.

    Consistency is still of utmost importance IMO.
    In the Aug'11 rule book , for hunt test , page 28 section 5 Senior Hunting Test sub section 2, "Dogs shall be steady on the line ,but a controlled break or creeping shall result in a relative lower score in Trainability,than a controlled break or creeping in a junior hunt test".... This sounds ( looks ) like there is no reason to automatically drop a Senior level dog for being unsteady until the problem becomes chronic... I'm all for going back to the days of "non -slip retrievers " one sit and then keep your mouth shut and see what happens .... Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  9. #59
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    No argument here Steve. I see SH as the milestone where I'm willing to hunt a dog, so in my personal case, I expect solid steadiness in a test at this level. We judge to the standard though, not our personal expectations. Mine have always been higher for my personal dog, even in MH, and I hope it showed in his performance.
    Darrin Greene

  10. #60
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    The Sr was describing the handler..not a dog...so I assumed it was also a senior dog.. I guess we need to be more specific when posting to give out the exact info we want.....by the way in AKC a jr dog is(should be ) on lead and can't break...What is the process of a started dog in HRC..? Steve S
    JH vs. SR are pretty similar only in SR your not required to deliver to hand (althought they usually all do) just area & no age requirement. Still you see a very broad spectrum of dog in SR, From very young pups to very advanced dogs that just aren't handling yet, and while dogs can be held it's a mismatch on those who do and people choose not to so they can utilize the gun, for experience, before they move on to seasoned where gun mistakes can cost you. But as you can have involved conversations with your dog in any level of HRC, as long as your not intimidating them, the OP questions prob does refer to AKC. End the end it all comes down to individual judges, I've been failed and passed in both HRC & AKC for what might be viewed as controlled breaks.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH-I HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast) Rip. July-2014
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    HR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

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