The proposed 13 story mosque at Ground Zero

[david gibson]

Over the tears muslims have built mosques on the scenes of their victories. Thats why they want it on Ground Zero. We as Americans need to prevent it. What say our muslim president?

he is mum on the subject and will continue to be because he does not want to insult our enemies and his "other people"

[Leddyman]

I figure it's easy. Either permit or outlaw all churches, Certainly the people killed in the WTC represented a very wide range of nationalities and religions, including a pretty significant number of Muslims, Hindus, and other non-Christians. The terrorists who caused the destruction didn't care about the religion of the victims, or their nationality, and they certainly didn't represent Islam. They represented their own insanity and hate. The fact that the KKK says it is defending Christianity doesn't make it so. Christianity does not deserved to be measured by the KKK or the Spanish Inquisition and Islam does not deserve to be measured by Osama bin Laden and his bands of evil fools.

I'm sorry, what is the KKK building at ground zero? The Imam in this mosque is clearly linked to radical elements of jihad. Try to follow the argument. Strawmen are just tricks.

[david gibson]

Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
I figure it's easy. Either permit or outlaw all churches, Certainly the people killed in the WTC represented a very wide range of nationalities and religions, including a pretty significant number of Muslims, Hindus, and other non-Christians. The terrorists who caused the destruction didn't care about the religion of the victims, or their nationality, and they certainly didn't represent Islam. They represented their own insanity and hate. The fact that the KKK says it is defending Christianity doesn't make it so. Christianity does not deserved to be measured by the KKK or the Spanish Inquisition and Islam does not deserve to be measured by Osama bin Laden and his bands of evil fools.

until "mainstream islam" - IF there really is one - stands up and decries radical islam and takes tangible, loud and clear steps against it by educating their youth against jihad and every other possible action to denounce and stop their ranks from within from jihad, then they are one and the same. all i have ever seen them do is give lip service.

they claim to be the religion of peace, but deep down i bet every single one of them gives their heart's stamp of approval on every act of terrorism committed.

kill 'em all let god/allah sort them out regards.......

[zeus3925]

I
So, the KKK and The Inquisition where NOT following their religion, but rather were giving an unfounded interpretation of Christianity. Killing infidels, OTOH, is part of Islam's tenets. (I stress my limited knowledge in this latter regard, so am open to correction.)

Citation, please, Gerry.

[Gerry Clinchy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy
I
So, the KKK and The Inquisition where NOT following their religion, but rather were giving an unfounded interpretation of Christianity. Killing infidels, OTOH, is part of Islam's tenets. (I stress my limited knowledge in this latter regard, so am open to correction.)

Citation, please, Gerry.

I would have to rely on my own interpretation of the Bible to say that the KKK and Inquisition were aberrant interpretations of the Bible.

I believe the issue on killing infidels was addressed by Jeff:

[quote]There is no place in the Koran that allows forced conversions (something done rutinely by Christian missionaries over time); they are specifically prohibited. Killing is only justified in defense of an attack. Those claiming justification of the Koran for their acts of violence are generally claiming that they are simply responding to attacks on Islam by the west. However, even there, they are not following the teachings of the Koran any more than the KKK (which does define itself as an organization for the defense of Christianity and white America.).[/QUOTE]

I did recently come across this quote:

“Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.” (Koran, 9.29)

My perception is that most influential relgions of today (Christian, Judaism, Buddhist, Shinto, etc.) have today disavowed the aberrant practices of events like the Inquisition. (That is my perception). Undoubtedly, there are still wingnuts out there who promote violence in the name of religion.

I would fault Muslims for not loudly & consistently disavowing violence of their own wingnut factions. But I have trouble not remembering the celebrations in the streets in some Muslim countries when the Towers fell.

[road kill]

I can only imagine Yardley and the rest of the progressives outrage if the Baptists tried to build a Church at ground zero!!!
Or the Catholics, or the Jews building a Temple.

Freakin' amazing........


rk

[zeus3925]

Qote from Gerry:
“Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.” (Koran, 9.29) "

Allah is a term not only used by Muslims, but by middle eastern Christians as well, before the establishment of Islam. It is a Arabic word, not a religious word. They believe that Allah is one and the same as Yahweh of the Jewish religion. Muslims hold that that Jews, Christians and Sabaeans, (those of the other Abrahamic faiths) are believers as well. Islam is viewed by them as an updated version of worship to the God of Abraham. Muslims hold the Old Testament as well as the New Testament as scripture for their faith. They also hold that Allah instructed Mohhammed to develop a third form of worship because Jews and Christians had strayed far from Biblical tenets.

Gerry, there have been numerous condemnations by Muslim clerics and groups of acts of violence perpetrated in the name of their religion. Much of it doesn't make the front page.

I am not a Muslim. I own three dogs which Muslims condemn as being unclean animals. I am too irreverent to pray five times a day, let alone shagging my butt to the local mosque to do it.


I am amazed how many here profess to be so great an expert on Muslims and Islam. Yet, they don't know any Muslims nor have they read up on any thing dispassionate about the faith. However, they will pontificate at length on "what THEY want".

For most of my adult life I have known Muslims. They have never ever given me any indication they want to bring down America or forcefully coerce you into joining their religion.

In large part, you are seeing middle eastern cultures trying to hang on by their finger nails against the onslaught of western culture. Cultures under threat circle the wagons and get very conservative. Pushed further, some will respond with violence--often using religion or some other sacred belief to justify their cause.

[road kill]

Qote from Gerry:
“Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.” (Koran, 9.29) "

Allah is a term not only used by Muslims, but by middle eastern Christians as well, before the establishment of Islam. It is a Arabic word, not a religious word. They believe that Allah is one and the same as Yahweh of the Jewish religion. Muslims hold that that Jews, Christians and Sabaeans, (those of the other Abrahamic faiths) are believers as well. Islam is viewed by them as an updated version of worship to the God of Abraham. Muslims hold the Old Testament as well as the New Testament as scripture for their faith. They also hold that Allah instructed Mohhammed to develop a third form of worship because Jews and Christians had strayed far from Biblical tenets.

Gerry, there have been numerous condemnations by Muslim clerics and groups of acts of violence perpetrated in the name of their religion. Much of it doesn't make the front page.

I am not a Muslim. I own three dogs which Muslims condemn as being unclean animals. I am too irreverent to pray five times a day, let alone shagging my butt to the local mosque to do it.


I am amazed how many here profess to be so great an expert on Muslims and Islam. Yet, they don't know any Muslims nor have they read up on any thing dispassionate about the faith. However, they will pontificate at length on "what THEY want".

For most of my adult life I have known Muslims. They have never ever given me any indication they want to bring down America or forcefully coerce you into joining their religion.

In large part, you are seeing middle eastern cultures trying to hang on by their finger nails against the onslaught of western culture. Cultures under threat circle the wagons and get very conservative. Pushed further, some will respond with violence--often using religion or some other sacred belief to justify their cause.

I wonder how the Muslims (peaceful or otherwise) would feel about the Lutherans building a Church in down town Tehran???




rk

[zeus3925]

I wonder how the Muslims (peaceful or otherwise) would feel about the Lutherans building a Church in down town Tehran???

rk

We have a New Age religion headquartered near Chanhassen, MN that has as one of its tenets a person can learn to channel his mental energy so that he might travel freely throughout the universe outside of his body. When the church sought to build a church and headquarters, the reactions from some of the good Catholics and Protestants of the community was explosive. Lawsuits ensued, but went no where. I suppose the reactions from the Muslim fundys would be similar. They put their pants on the same way.

[road kill]

We have a New Age religion headquartered near Chanhassen, MN that has as one of its tenets a person can learn to channel his mental energy so that he might travel freely throughout the universe outside of his body. When the church sought to build a church and headquarters, the reactions from some of the good Catholics and Protestants of the community was explosive. Lawsuits ensued, but went no where. I suppose the reactions from the Muslim fundys would be similar. They put their pants on the same way.

Back in the day, we called that a bong.

"Timothy Leary's dead..........."


rk