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Thread: The proposed 13 story mosque at Ground Zero

  1. #41
    Senior Member BrianW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by troy schwab View Post
    Y'all should read up on what really happened in Cordoba around 1200....... .
    I hope Jeff can help me with this;
    Why would any thoughtful, community minded actionary for peaceful Islam eve consider naming theis project the Codoba Initiave (from Wik just now) ;
    An Iberian and Roman city in ancient times, in the Middle Ages it was capital of the Islamic caliphate which conquered and occupied Spain for nearly 800 years. During this time Cordoba was one of the largest cities in the world whose name continues to represent a symbol of Islamic conquest to many faithful Muslims around the world.

    Would you not agree that symbolism is one of the most powerful messages that a faith based organization relies? That this intelligeant successful man studied it very carefully? Also the purpose of the building sends a message too.
    From it's own mission staement.
    Cordoba Initiative tackles this mandate with forethought, expertise and the ability to leverage contacts in influential positions within the Muslim World and the West. Thinking outside the box about international and intercultural conflict resolution also means thinking introspectively about each side's place within its own historical narrative with a view to devising internally oriented solutions

    Could not a reasonable interpretation of this be that the CI intends to work to further the prospect of Sharia law in New York City?

    Do you think that this is the best message to send at this particular location?
    "It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
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  2. #42
    Senior Member troy schwab's Avatar
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    That is precisely my point Brian........ the mere name is a slap in the face on New Yorkers......IMO Cordoba was nothing but a major persecution and slaughter of non-muslims..... pretty ugly period of time actually. Not withstanding..... other religions are guilty of this too....... but to name your "peaceful" organization the Cordoba Intiative is eerily EVIL.

    BUT..... Im sure someone's pockets are getting fatter over this..........

  3. #43
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    you truly have to wonder about anyone who defends this mosque

  4. #44
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Just wondering ... that piece of land had to be really, really expensive to start with. Could this organization not have spent those bucks in some other way to better serve the purpose of "reconciliation"?

    Even if the $ were used for charitable purposes within the Muslim community (I'm sure there are needs there), it could be of better use than becoming involved this morass of controversy ... that seems to be creating more confrontation than reconciliation.
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  5. #45
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...e-harm-th.html

    This article is old, goes back to 2004, but it is disturbing. Even though Imam Rauf is considered among the most West-friendly type, his basic mindset is based in Islam that the West must apologize to Muslims.


    The US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end, says an Islamic cleric invited to Sydney by Premier Bob Carr.


    New York-based Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who impressed Mr Carr at an international conference last year, arrives in Sydney today for two weeks of meetings and public talks.


    Speaking from his New York mosque, Imam Feisal said the West had to understand the terrorists' point of view.


    In a move likely to cause controversy with church leaders, Imam Feisal said it was Christians who started mass attacks on civilians.


    "The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."
    This is outrageously specious, but it depends on the ignorance of the listeners. The bombings of Dresden and Hiroshima were not justified by the bombers on the basis of Christian theology. The bombings by terrorists -- 9/11, 3/11, etc. -- are justified on the basis of Islamic theology. By claiming that they are equivalent, Abdul Rauf obscures the Islamic roots of modern-day terrorism, thus hindering the prospects for the reform within Islam that is so desperately needed if jihad terrorism is ever going to cease.
    I believe that the zoning people made the right legal decision. They followed the law. Justifying their decision based on the law is reasonable. OTOH, (I think paraphrasing Pope John Paul's words regarding a similar situation): Just because they have a right to build there, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
    Last edited by Gerry Clinchy; 08-06-2010 at 07:57 AM.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    I wonder if the true motivation behind this mosque being built is to actually promote and encuorage an attack or vandalism, in order to run to the press with "See? We're the innocent victim!" headlines?? If so, I hope there's no rednecks willing to oblige their plan, because that would only precipitate retaliation against a Church, then another, and pretty soon, we'll be just like the middle east with funeral assasinations in our streets.

    I wish common sense would prevail, and they would just build somewhere else. I see no legal justification to block construction, but damn, a little horse-sense would say otherwise.
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  7. #47
    Senior Member troy schwab's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Gerry Clinchy;656218

    I believe that the zoning people made the right legal decision. They followed the law. Justifying their decision based on the law is reasonable. OTOH, (I think paraphrasing Pope John Paul's words regarding a similar situation): Just because they have a right to build there, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately..... legally your right. But, as Americans, they also had the ability to throw a huge wrench in the operation, which they chose not to. I dont like their decision one bit. They are probably being paid accordingly.......

  8. #48
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Just wondering ... that piece of land had to be really, really expensive to start with. Could this organization not have spent those bucks in some other way to better serve the purpose of "reconciliation"?

    Even if the $ were used for charitable purposes within the Muslim community (I'm sure there are needs there), it could be of better use than becoming involved this morass of controversy ... that seems to be creating more confrontation than reconciliation.

    If that were their intent, yes!!
    (but of course it is not)




    RK
    Stan b & Elvis

  9. #49
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    I wonder if the true motivation behind this mosque being built is to actually promote and encuorage an attack or vandalism, in order to run to the press with "See? We're the innocent victim!" headlines?? If so, I hope there's no rednecks willing to oblige their plan, because that would only precipitate retaliation against a Church, then another, and pretty soon, we'll be just like the middle east with funeral assasinations in our streets.

    I wish common sense would prevail, and they would just build somewhere else. I see no legal justification to block construction, but damn, a little horse-sense would say otherwise.
    Page 2!!


    BTW--NYC is a BIG TYME union town.
    Which union will build this?
    What inspecters will approve this?

    If you have ever worked with these guys, Teamsters, Carpenters, Plumbers, Lectricians etc you know what's coming.
    These guys can make it take 37 years to build this and still not approve it to code.
    Even though NYC is a progressive leaning voting block and these unions are strong and vote Dem, the guys in the street are as big of rednecks as anyone on earth.
    (proud redneck here, no insult)


    This is more than likely going to get ugly.





    RK
    Stan b & Elvis

  10. #50
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    One then asks, why not build something that does NOT include a mosque as part of the "community center"?

    http://www.goarch.org/special/september11/stnicholas

    The historic St. Nicholas Church was destroyed when part of the Tower fell on it. They are having a much harder time raising money. If the Park 51 project, which seems to be flush with funds, were trying to be a healing agent, why not contribute some of those funds to re-build St. Nicholas?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

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