muslims are just brilliant

[depittydawg]

Yes it would. And He would be none to happy with me right now either.

But he would forgive us both.

[YardleyLabs]

So you consider a man that burns a book the same as a man that will douse someone in gas and light him on fire? Almost the same thing right? Did you watch that video? You bring up one man that's going to burn a book and compare it to that?
And I don't need you to tell me what I might want to consider. I can make my own decisions without your help. It's you that needs to reconsider just how much your love of diversity puts us all at risk.
Walt

I consider him the same as Imams that preach hate for America and for Christians.

[dnf777]

The danger is that fear can run amok. It did in Germany in the interwar period. We know what happened then.

Here's another more recent example. (from this very thread!) In this case, Islamophobia.




Are you talking the assassination of this one man, or exterminating the entire religion?

.....yes......

[YardleyLabs]

Yes Jeff that minister in TN does deserve condemnation. I do not support that behavior. I volunteer for the CPC here in town, no wackos there, no condemnation of doctors who perform abortions-just trying to help young pregnant girls. At least we are not chopping their heads off or stoning them. But anyway.....I'm sure that we will see all kinds of good will from Muslim countries next Saturday, no dancing in the streets, no Islamic companies paying $$ for little terrorists killing american soliders. War? What War?

Again it goes back to following the teachings Jeff-which you avoided by showing how people are not following the teachings of Christ.

OTOH:

"The beginnings of Jihad are traced back to the words and actions of Muhammad and the Qu’ran.[38] This encourages the use of Jihad against non-Muslims.[39] Sura 25, verse 52 states: “Therefore, do not obey the disbelievers, and strive against them with this, a great striving.”[40] It was, therefore, the duty of all Muslims to strive against those who did not believe in Allah and took offensive action against Muslims

You might want to read the entire segment of the Sura that you have quoted in part. The section describes that point in time when the righteous will be brought into paradise and the unrighteous will be called to account before God. There is absolutely nothing in that section that could even remotely be considered a call to religious war. The events described parallel much of what Christians believe about the end of time when some will be saved and others condemned forever. (See http://www.masjidtucson.org/quran/noframes/ch25.html)

[depittydawg]

Here's another more recent example. (from this very thread!) In this case, Islamophobia.




Are you talking the assassination of this one man, or exterminating the entire religion?

.....yes......

Just a bit over the top I'd say.

[Pals]

I know about the different types of Jihad Jeff. Are you going to deny that the Quran and muhammad encouraged "war" against non-believers?

Again-show me where Christ ever, EVER, said that we are to kill one another or kill in the name of God? Pretty sure he told us to love one another as we would ourselves. Regardless we are so far from the point-any little "insult" and the wackos come out of the woodwork-and that mostly happens very loudly with the Muslims-and death threats against those that drew the cartoon or some other dasardly deed.

[YardleyLabs]

I know about the different types of Jihad Jeff. Are you going to deny that the Quran and muhammad encouraged "war" against non-believers?

Again-show me where Christ ever, EVER, said that we are to kill one another or kill in the name of God? Pretty sure he told us to love one another as we would ourselves. Regardless we are so far from the point-any little "insult" and the wackos come out of the woodwork-and that mostly happens very loudly with the Muslims-and death threats against those that drew the cartoon or some other dasardly deed.

Actually, the Koran prohibits conversions by force and calls for wars against "non-believers" only when they attempt to force Muslims to violate the requirements of their religion. I don't believe that the texts of either religion contain justification for religious war to promote religious supremacy. However, that has not prevented proponents of both from claiming God's support for wars beginning with the crusades and continuing to the present.

[Gerry Clinchy]

However, that has not prevented proponents of both from claiming God's support for wars beginning with the crusades and continuing to the present.

There is another religion, other than Islam, that still encourages religious war to promote religious supremacy?

[Pals]

Actually, the Koran prohibits conversions by force and calls for wars against "non-believers" only when they attempt to force Muslims to violate the requirements of their religion. I don't believe that the texts of either religion contain justification for religious war to promote religious supremacy. However, that has not prevented proponents of both from claiming God's support for wars beginning with the crusades and continuing to the present.

What a non answer. Yes the Koran calls for war or Jihad against infidels(and yes I do know the origin of the word infidel-I don't care either, it's how it is used against our country that should matter to us) Christ never calls for war. That was my point-oh 10 posts ago.

I swear Jeff sometimes following along after you is like rubbing sandpaper on my face. So exactly how did I force those hijackers to violate their religion and fly our planes into our buildings? Nevermind. Retract that question. I'm going to go eat and play with the dogs-and give thanks that I live in America and pray for all of us tonight.

[YardleyLabs]

There is another religion, other than Islam, that still encourages religious war to promote religious supremacy?

You might better pose that question to people like Rick Santorum, or in fact to a large percentage of the religious right in this country which has declared us to be engaged in a religious war with Islam: People who go far out of the way to completely distort the Koran; People who characterize an entire religion as being responsible for the acts of a few because the moderates don't stand up against the radicals, but then attack the moderates as shills for the radicals when they do speak up.

In Islam, as in Christianity, anyone can speak their beliefs and their interpretations of religious texts. Keith, for example, believes deeply in what he describes as a literal reading of the Bible and professes a belief that Christianity is the only true religion and that all others are errors, leading their followers against God. Does Keith speak for all who profess Christianity? In Islam, there are many different ministers who profess the same basic beliefs in Muhammad as the Prophet and the Koran as a revelation of God's truth. However, many of their beliefs are sharply at variance with each other. Islam does not speak with one voice any more than Christianity does, even though many of the proponents of both religions believe that only one voice can be correct.

Of course, Christians, and right wing politicians, never say that we are at war with Islam. Instead, they say Islam is ar war with us and that we must destroy Islam to protect ourselves. The difference exists only in the eyes and mouths of the proponents.

Jihadists say the same thing. They point to a long history of western efforts to suppress Muslim populations and declare a Jihad to defend the religion against the economic and religious imperialism of the west. Quite frankly, their arguments are as strong as ours.

Whether you view "us" as the United States, the west, or the Christian world, the reality is that we cannot defeat Islam. Similarly, Islam cannot defeat us. What we can do is make each other miserable. There are alternatives, but they only work if the moderates on both sides reach out to each other and reject the extremists on both sides. Unfortunately, the right wing of the Republican Party seems committed to allying itself with the extremists instead.