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Thread: Meet The Pastor

  1. #51
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Yeah, both of my long time friends worked for FDNY. They were in there trying to save people and lost ther lives because of it.
    NOBODY can ever convince me that a tribute to the murders should be allowed to be built.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Are you suggesting that you need to hate more than one religion to be a religious bigot?????

    And where did I say I didn't care what you say? I spend most of my days in anticipation of your next post, hoping for a bit of wisdom.



    I'll tell you when I see it....
    you will never be able to see wisdom, its far to above your head.

    if its a religion that condones stoning women to death, female circumcision, cutting off their noses, etc etc, then yes. i'll proudly stand against it, while you would defend it.

    and who is the religious bigot? you are for the mosque, but condemned the christian who wanted to burn the koran. i support the constitutional right of each, but think each is morally wrong.

    you only got half of that right. lots of wisdom there, yesiree.....

  3. #53
    Senior Member gman0046's Avatar
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    Yardley. nice post about strip clubs. The only strip clubs you'd be familiar with would be the Chippendales.

  4. #54
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post
    you will never be able to see wisdom, its far to above your head.

    if its a religion that condones stoning women to death, female circumcision, cutting off their noses, etc etc, then yes. i'll proudly stand against it, while you would defend it.

    and who is the religious bigot? you are for the mosque, but condemned the christian who wanted to burn the koran. i support the constitutional right of each, but think each is morally wrong.

    you only got half of that right. lots of wisdom there, yesiree.....
    You are right. I see nothing wrong with building a place of worship anyplace that it is legal to do so and certainly see no reason for preferring one religion over another. I don't blame Muslims for the 9/11 attacks any more than I blame Christians for the Holocaust or the almost 2000 years pf persecution of Jews that preceded it. As I noted in my very first post on the subject, I would have no problem at all with a ban on all churches within x blocks of ground zero. Failing a ban on all, any church of any denomination is the same to me.

    I also oppose desecration of religious and national symbols as being poor manners, but also believe that such actions are fully protected by our constitution (as do you). To the extent that the Koran or the Bible are holy books, neither is harmed by burning a printed copy, any more than a country is harmed by burning its flag. Symbols should never be confused with the ideals and values they represent.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Failing a ban on all, any church of any denomination is the same to me.

    So how do you feel about the mosque being approved and St Nicholas Church still fighting for approval 9 years later?????


    http://www.greekboston.com/wordpress...e-ground-zero/

  6. #56
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixidawg View Post
    So how do you feel about the mosque being approved and St Nicholas Church still fighting for approval 9 years later?????


    http://www.greekboston.com/wordpress...e-ground-zero/
    St. Nicholas has all the approvals that it needs to rebuild. That has never been the issue. What it wants is more (lots more) tax payer money to pay for the construction. They were offered tens of millions (for reasons I do not understand), but demanded tens of millions more. They were finally told to go ahead and build but not to expect any more funds from all of us.

    I don't see anyone asking for tax payers to pay any of the costs of the proposed Islamic Center.
    The entire Ground Zero rebuilding process has taken years longer than expected, due to the arduous rescue, recovery and rubble-removal efforts, followed by the bureaucratic process of establishing property ownership and designing the memorial and buildings.
    By late 2008, St. Nicholas and the Port Authority had reached a tentative agreement for the church to give up its 1,200-square-foot site at 155 Cedar Street in exchange for 130 Liberty Street, a bigger site half a block away.
    Six months later, the Port Authority said negotiations ended because St. Nicholas demanded too much money and approval power over a vehicle security center beneath the sites. Port Authority spokesman Stephen Sigmund said the church can return to its original location.
    "In 2009, we made our final offer, which again included up to $60 million in public money, and told St. Nicholas Orthodox Church that the World Trade Center could not be delayed over this issue," he said in a written statement. "They rejected that offer." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_691708.html)
    Also see:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...icials-forgot/
    http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/02/t...ound-zero.html

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gman0046 View Post
    Yardley. nice post about strip clubs. The only strip clubs you'd be familiar with would be the Chippendales.
    Stay Classy....

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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    St. Nicholas has all the approvals that it needs to rebuild. That has never been the issue. What it wants is more (lots more) tax payer money to pay for the construction. They were offered tens of millions (for reasons I do not understand), but demanded tens of millions more. They were finally told to go ahead and build but not to expect any more funds from all of us.

    I don't see anyone asking for tax payers to pay any of the costs of the proposed Islamic Center.
    The entire Ground Zero rebuilding process has taken years longer than expected, due to the arduous rescue, recovery and rubble-removal efforts, followed by the bureaucratic process of establishing property ownership and designing the memorial and buildings.
    By late 2008, St. Nicholas and the Port Authority had reached a tentative agreement for the church to give up its 1,200-square-foot site at 155 Cedar Street in exchange for 130 Liberty Street, a bigger site half a block away.
    Six months later, the Port Authority said negotiations ended because St. Nicholas demanded too much money and approval power over a vehicle security center beneath the sites. Port Authority spokesman Stephen Sigmund said the church can return to its original location.
    "In 2009, we made our final offer, which again included up to $60 million in public money, and told St. Nicholas Orthodox Church that the World Trade Center could not be delayed over this issue," he said in a written statement. "They rejected that offer." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_691708.html)
    Also see:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...icials-forgot/
    http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/02/t...ound-zero.html


    Pay for the construction or pay for the required additional construction costs for "security"? Looks to me like that "public money" was to pay for some serious "building code requirements". Not exactly a gift to the church for them to rebuild with.



    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/ny...urch.html?_r=1

    .....
    "Last July, the Port Authority and the Greek Orthodox Church announced a tentative plan to rebuild the church just east of its original site, at Liberty and Greenwich Streets. The authority agreed to provide the church with land for a 24,000-square-foot house of worship, far larger than the original, and $20 million. Since the church would be built in a park over the bomb-screening center, the authority also agreed to pay up to $40 million for a blast-proof platform and foundation.
    In recent negotiations, the authority cut the size of the church slightly and told church officials that its dome could not rise higher than the trade center memorial. The church, in turn, wanted the right to review plans for both the garage with the bomb-screening center and the park, something the authority was unwilling to provide. More important, authority officials said, the church wanted the $20 million up front, rather than in stages. Officials said they feared that the church, which has raised about $2 million for its new building, would come back to the authority for more.
    The termination of negotiations is a major setback for the little church, a parish of 70 families that is nearly 90 years old. St. Nicholas officials had hoped to build an impressive structure, with a traditional Greek Orthodox dome, and a nondenominational center for visitors to ground zero. That will not be possible on the church’s original 1,200-square-foot lot, although church officials say they hope for reconciliation....."








    And for the Mosque, what is the source of the "private funding"? Has that ever been fully investigated and vetted? Do they have the same "security requirements" to build?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixidawg View Post
    Pay for the construction or pay for the required additional construction costs for "security"? Looks to me like that "public money" was to pay for some serious "building code requirements". Not exactly a gift to the church for them to rebuild with.



    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/ny...urch.html?_r=1

    .....
    "Last July, the Port Authority and the Greek Orthodox Church announced a tentative plan to rebuild the church just east of its original site, at Liberty and Greenwich Streets. The authority agreed to provide the church with land for a 24,000-square-foot house of worship, far larger than the original, and $20 million. Since the church would be built in a park over the bomb-screening center, the authority also agreed to pay up to $40 million for a blast-proof platform and foundation.
    In recent negotiations, the authority cut the size of the church slightly and told church officials that its dome could not rise higher than the trade center memorial. The church, in turn, wanted the right to review plans for both the garage with the bomb-screening center and the park, something the authority was unwilling to provide. More important, authority officials said, the church wanted the $20 million up front, rather than in stages. Officials said they feared that the church, which has raised about $2 million for its new building, would come back to the authority for more.
    The termination of negotiations is a major setback for the little church, a parish of 70 families that is nearly 90 years old. St. Nicholas officials had hoped to build an impressive structure, with a traditional Greek Orthodox dome, and a nondenominational center for visitors to ground zero. That will not be possible on the church’s original 1,200-square-foot lot, although church officials say they hope for reconciliation....."








    And for the Mosque, what is the source of the "private funding"? Has that ever been fully investigated and vetted? Do they have the same "security requirements" to build?
    i don't think so, but the speaker did call for an investigation of the funding behind people expressing their 1st amendment rights opposing the mosque.

  10. #60
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixidawg View Post
    Pay for the construction or pay for the required additional construction costs for "security"? Looks to me like that "public money" was to pay for some serious "building code requirements". Not exactly a gift to the church for them to rebuild with.



    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/ny...urch.html?_r=1

    .....
    "Last July, the Port Authority and the Greek Orthodox Church announced a tentative plan to rebuild the church just east of its original site, at Liberty and Greenwich Streets. The authority agreed to provide the church with land for a 24,000-square-foot house of worship, far larger than the original, and $20 million. Since the church would be built in a park over the bomb-screening center, the authority also agreed to pay up to $40 million for a blast-proof platform and foundation.
    In recent negotiations, the authority cut the size of the church slightly and told church officials that its dome could not rise higher than the trade center memorial. The church, in turn, wanted the right to review plans for both the garage with the bomb-screening center and the park, something the authority was unwilling to provide. More important, authority officials said, the church wanted the $20 million up front, rather than in stages. Officials said they feared that the church, which has raised about $2 million for its new building, would come back to the authority for more.
    The termination of negotiations is a major setback for the little church, a parish of 70 families that is nearly 90 years old. St. Nicholas officials had hoped to build an impressive structure, with a traditional Greek Orthodox dome, and a nondenominational center for visitors to ground zero. That will not be possible on the church’s original 1,200-square-foot lot, although church officials say they hope for reconciliation....."








    And for the Mosque, what is the source of the "private funding"? Has that ever been fully investigated and vetted? Do they have the same "security requirements" to build?
    The church that was destroyed was a small church with a very small membership. It was only open two days per week. The replacement church planned is six times bigger. $4 million has been raised so far for the construction. The cost -- ignoring issues of the security platform which would be paid by the Port Authority -- was estimated at over $20 million for construction alone. The church has basically been trying to get the cost funded by the public with little success. The exchange of properties began when the church objected to an entrance being proposed for the new memorial. What the PA has said is simply that they are welcome to build on the property they own. The PA will pay fair market value for underground rights but provide no other special consideration. That is sometimes what happens when you push too far in a negotiation where you are being given something to which you do not have any actual legal claim. The fact that the "gift" was promised years ago by a former Governor doesn't help the church in its arguments. No one around today would have made the original commitment. Maybe the chiurch would have been smarter to simply say "Thank you." At this point, they are no longer being offered that option.

    None of this has anything to do with the mosque, since the mosque has not requested special consideration from anyone. Rather, others have asked to have laws bent to prevent the mosque from being built. The mosque is obviously allowed to raise funds from any legal source that it chooses. Under US law, it may not accept money from terrorist groups, but is otherwise unencumbered. As far as we know, almost no money has been raised to date and they may never succeed in raising the amounts needed. That is their problem. They are not the ones asking taxpayers to foot the bill.

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