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Thread: better watch what we say about obama!

  1. #21
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terri View Post
    Islam does not allow children born to Muslim parents to make a choice as to what religion they will be as adults. Most religious parents (Muslim, Jew, Christians, Budda, Hindu, etc.) expect their children to stay in the religion they were raised. A lot of Western countries have children and adults who have the choice to decide to change religions or have no faith at all. No such freedom in Muslim ruled countries. If your father is Muslim you are Muslim. The reason their religion is passed down by the father is based on Arab culture and continues to exist in Islam. In Iran before Islam was forced on them the woman's family would care for the children if the father died or the family broke up. The easiest way to prove a family tie is through the mother because there are witnesses to the mother and the child being related. It was harder to prove a father to child relationship because DNA test did not exist. This is one reason that Arab men have guarded their wives and daughter so closely. A woman holds the man's honor. That is why they have honor killings. Muslim men can marry outside their religion, but Muslim women can not marry outside the religion. This is to assure the children will be Muslim.
    In this country when a Muslim man marries a women of a different faith there is less chance the children will practice Islam or view themselves as ever having been Muslim. If they travel to a Muslim country it will be assumed they are Muslim and will be held to the rules of Islam. To deny you are Muslim can be very dangerous for ex Muslims and child of Muslims.
    People born to any religious family face rejection if they leave the religion, but most do not face death.
    Terri
    As you noted, in most countries parents expect their children to adhere to the parents' religion. I don't know if it is still true, but when my Catholic friends married non-Catholics, they were required to have the non-Catholic spouse attend classes prior to marriage and to commit to raise all children as Catholics or the Church would not recognize the marriage. Many of my Jewish friends were surprised at the strength of their parents' opposition to marriages to non-Jews, and most of my Protestant friends would never have considered a marriage to a Catholic of a Jew.

    Protestant countries tend to view themselves as more open minded than countries with a single dominant religion. However, some of that apparent tolerance is actually reserved for other Protestant faiths: Baptists marrying Methodists, or Presbyterians marrying Episcopalians. When I was married, the ceremony was performed by a Presbyterian minister. He agreed only because my wife had been baptized as a Presbyterian and despite the fact that I had never been baptized. Many other ministers were unwilling to perform such a ceremony at all. Many of those barriers broke down as the country became increasingly secular in the 60's, but the pendulum now seems to be swinging in the other direction.

    As with Catholics and Jews, Muslim parents are expected to raise their children as Muslims. It is their religious responsibility. However, children are not expected or required to participate in daily prayer rituals until they have reached maturity. Parents are expected to send them for religious training when they are young, much as Protestants may send their children to Bible school, or Catholics send their children to parochial schools or, at least, catechism classes, and Jewish children are routinely sent to Hebrew classes where they will study the Torah and prepare for their entry into the faith at the age of 13. As with churches that have adult baptism, Muslims must make an individual decision to practice the faith. Like Judaism, and unlike Christianity, salvation for Muslims is dependent not on faith, but on adherence to religious law and by good works (charity ranking very high on the list).

    Contrary to what Gman claimed, Obama is not a Muslim by birth under Islamic law any more than a Baptist is Baptist by birth. There is no such thing. He is not a Muslim because his father was a Muslim. Once his parents divorced, under Islamic law and practice, his mother became responsible for his religious education and she was never a Muslim. Obama also returned to America before he reached maturity and was in a position to make a choice of religion.

    When Obama chose to be a Christian, no Islamic law was violated. His choice may still be surprising given the fact that he came from a non-religious household. However, nothing about his birth of upbringing made him a Muslim.
    Last edited by YardleyLabs; 09-14-2010 at 03:03 PM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member gman0046's Avatar
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    Yardley, Obongolo was born to a muslim father. In the eyes of muslims it makes him a muslim regardless of your BS. What don't you understand about that? How can you say Obongolo's mother divorced his Kenyan father? They were NEVER married, he was born out of wedlock. You and your posts are nothing but drivel and lies. We are all sick of your lying and BS posts, yet you continue with your non stop anti American nonsense. Give it up!
    Last edited by gman0046; 09-14-2010 at 03:29 PM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member troy schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    When Obama chose to be a Christian, no Islamic law was violated. His choice may still be surprising given the fact that he came from a non-religious household. However, nothing about his birth of upbringing made him a Muslim.
    When was that??? What church does he attend? When does he attend? Please back your crap up........

  4. #24
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by troy schwab View Post
    When was that??? What church does he attend? When does he attend? Please back your crap up........
    He is now a Christian, having been baptized in the early 1990s at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. (Newsweek: http://www.newsweek.com/2008/07/11/f...his-faith.html

    "And in time, I came to see faith as more than just a comfort to the weary or a hedge against death, but rather as an active, palpable agent in the world and in my own life. It was because of these newfound understandings that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity one day and affirm my Christian faith. It came about as a choice, and not an epiphany. I didn't fall out in church, as folks sometimes do. The questions I had didn't magically disappear. The skeptical bent of my mind didn't suddenly vanish. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt I heard God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works." (Obama Speech, 6/23/2007, http://www.barackobama.com/2007/06/2...nscience_1.php )
    In our country, how is religion declared other than through personal testimony in churches that have no formal process of conversion?

  5. #25
    Senior Member gman0046's Avatar
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    Yardley, how about the divorce of Obongolo's parents? Are you not going to address your LIE?

  6. #26
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    He is now a Christian, having been baptized in the early 1990s at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. (Newsweek: http://www.newsweek.com/2008/07/11/f...his-faith.html

    "And in time, I came to see faith as more than just a comfort to the weary or a hedge against death, but rather as an active, palpable agent in the world and in my own life. It was because of these newfound understandings that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity one day and affirm my Christian faith. It came about as a choice, and not an epiphany. I didn't fall out in church, as folks sometimes do. The questions I had didn't magically disappear. The skeptical bent of my mind didn't suddenly vanish. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt I heard God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works." (Obama Speech, 6/23/2007, http://www.barackobama.com/2007/06/2...nscience_1.php )
    In our country, how is religion declared other than through personal testimony in churches that have no formal process of conversion?
    Who babtized him??

    What was he prior to that??

    RK
    Last edited by road kill; 09-14-2010 at 04:01 PM.
    Stan b & Elvis

  7. #27
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gman0046 View Post
    Yardley, how about the divorce of Obongolo's parents? Are you not going to address your LIE?
    What about the divorce? His parents separated when Obama was two. His father -- an atheist despite his Muslim upbringing -- and mother were subsequently divorced and his father remarried when Obama was about five. What "LIE" are you talking about? Obama's mother married an Indonesian student and the family moved to Indonesia. After about four years there, Obama's mother sent the 10 year old back to live with her parents in Hawaii because of her concerns about the environment in which he was being raised. Once again, what "LIE" are you talking about?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gman0046 View Post
    Yardley, how about the divorce of Obongolo's parents? Are you not going to address your LIE?
    You're an idiot gman...from wikipedia

    Obama was born August 4, 1961, at Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii.[5][6] His mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, was born in Wichita, Kansas, of mostly English, but also some German, descent.[7][8][9] His father, Barack Obama, Sr., was a Luo from Nyang’oma Kogelo, Nyanza Province, Kenya. Obama is the first President to have been born in Hawaii.[10][11] Obama's parents met in 1960 in a Russian language class at the University of Hawaii at Mānoa, where his father was a foreign student on scholarship.[12][13] The couple married on February 2, 1961

  9. #29
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Who babtized him??

    What was he prior to that??

    RK
    I have no idea. Does it matter? Based on his writings and what is known, Obama had no religious leanings before joining Trinity. His father and mother were both atheists. While Christians by upbringing, Obama's grandparents were not active in any church. His upbringing was almost entirely secular and I suspect that his initial involvement at Trinity may have stemmed more from social reasons than religious ones. Based on the number of people (including you) who keep assuring me that I will call out for God at some point in my life despite more than 60 years as an atheist, I would assume that Obama can make a similar decision.

  10. #30
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    I have no idea. Does it matter? Based on his writings and what is known, Obama had no religious leanings before joining Trinity. His father and mother were both atheists.(Mother was described in your linked article as Agnostic) While Christians by upbringing, Obama's grandparents were not active in any church. His upbringing was almost entirely secular and I suspect that his initial involvement at Trinity may have stemmed more from social reasons than religious ones. Based on the number of people (including you) who keep assuring me that I will call out for God at some point in my life despite more than 60 years as an atheist, I would assume that Obama can make a similar decision.
    So....you didn't read your own posted link??
    Not surprising.

    "His baptism presents its own problems. The senior pastor at Trinity at the time of Obama's baptism was the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., the preacher who was seen damning America on cable TV for weeks last spring—and will doubtless be seen again this fall."

    I find it interesting that he allowed a Church and Pastor that he knew nothing about to babtise him.

    Also, he was (and is IMO) as confused about his religion as he was (and is IMO) his race.
    Before you go nutz calling me names, perhaps you should read his autobiography, where he spends quite a bit of time discussing his confusion and ultimate dscisions in regard to this issue.

    In the future, if you are going to post a link (the all approving lefty technique of indesputable truth) could you at least read it??
    Not your best effort....or was it??



    RK
    Last edited by road kill; 09-14-2010 at 05:56 PM.
    Stan b & Elvis

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