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Thread: R Public Employees Overpaid - Part II

  1. #31
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    All we have to do is look at the American factory worker who listened to the union boss & is now unemployed. .
    How dare they not work for a sac of rice and 50 cents per day like their Asian replacement is willing to do!

    The world is flat. Wake up!
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terri View Post
    Marvin,

    I do not know how I have an entitlement attitude.

    Terri
    4 posts about your personal situation says more than any of your denials .

    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    How dare they not work for a sac of rice and 50 cents per day like their Asian replacement is willing to do!

    The world is flat. Wake up!
    I would have thought someone with your vast knowledge, a critic of NAFTA, could provide something a little more eloquent than the old rice burner analogy .
    __________________________

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    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  3. #33
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    I would have thought someone with your vast knowledge, a critic of NAFTA, could provide something a little more eloquent than the old rice burner analogy .
    Such countries often don't publicize labor statistics, so I'm left to rice-burner alnalogies. Our workers, union or not, if they expect to earn a decent wage to support a household, cannot compete with people who gladly accept what we would refuse.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  4. #34
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post

    I for example know that teachers in SD receive considerably less in the rural areas, but are still paid quite well compared to those in the community. They also turn out a superior product!

    State Rankings

    Average Teacher Salary Rank: 50th
    Starting Teacher Salary Rank: 47th
    Salary raise last year: 2.0%
    Salary raise over 10 years: 31.7%

    Starting Salary: $26,111
    Average Salary: $34,709

    I can't find average salary for the state, only median income. It's interesting that back in the early 1990's I knew some public school teachers in the Cincinnati area. I'd thought about teaching, and there was a serious shortage of teachers qualified to teach math & science in the state. I was working as an engineer making around $55k at the time as an engineer. When I looked into it, the starting salary was $25k with the average being around $45k after around 20 years of experience. I told them that they weren't serious about getting qualified math and science teachers with that kind of pay scale. They were insulted, telling me that they want people who are interested in teaching kids, not making money. I imagine that the salaries were cast in stone by a union contract.

    Here is some data on math and reading scores by state. I'll let you all sort it out for yourselves.

    http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/10s0260.pdf

    My daughter Liz recently had an assessment for reading level. She just started 6th grade and she has a reading level of 12.3, which means she has the reading proficiency of a 12th grader in the 3rd month of school. Her best friend tested at a 12.6. If I had to put the credit with anyone, I would put it with Liz's mom, not the school system.
    Last edited by Buzz; 09-22-2010 at 09:20 AM.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Such countries often don't publicize labor statistics, so I'm left to rice-burner alnalogies. Our workers, union or not, if they expect to earn a decent wage to support a household, cannot compete with people who gladly accept what we would refuse.
    You can support a household for a hell of a lot less than unions demand. I know what I make and I support a stay at home wife and three kids. I know what a friend in PA makes as a union carpenter and what he says a lot of the other union workers he works with gets paid. Let's just say he's got it waaaaay better than I do. However, it is not necessary to make that much money to support a family. Don't get me wrong, they have it really good with their benefits and all, but if the union would get their head out of their butt (maybe you can help)(calm down, not a knock on your profession) maybe they would realize that if people made 10% less, they could employ 10% more people, have less delays on job completions, make more money on union dues, perhaps help improve their image, etc...

  6. #36
    Senior Member Terri's Avatar
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    Marvin,

    I'm glad you did not bring any of your personal life into your post. Isn't it funny that you counted my post, go back and read your own post. I'm pretty sure you did talk about your family along with others on this post who have brought their family and life experiences to this thread. I can talk about my family experience because that is what I know. Everyone has had different experiences in life and that is what they bring to this thread. You do not know me, but you are the one who claimed I didn't give enough facts only opinions. You think I have an entitlement attitude from my post, your opinion. Where are the facts to support that claim? After reading your post I found you to be a socialist. This is based on your post that just because a person has an education he should not make any more money than some one without an education. That sounds like a socialist to me, just my opinion. Lets pay everyone the same, do what you love, and we will all live as one. No thank you. I want people to be paid for their hard work, people can do what they love, but they better be able to pay their own way. I do not live in LA, LA Land. My husband works for the state, but he also has his own business, we do not have all our eggs in one basket. He will find a way to make it work because he is willing to work and I have been willing to save for the future. No government hands outs coming our way.

    For the RTF form:
    I have no problem with the private sector, but I also see a need for government jobs as well. Does that mean that I want a big government that controls everything? No, All I'm saying is that not all the economic problems we face are caused by the amount of money we pay government employees. What about the private sector who gets government contracts and over charges for the work they do? I hate to think how many times I have read about the government being charged $16 for one nail, bailing out private sector companies, $800,000 plus for a new execution room for the state of California (When was the last time we executed anyone in this state?), the blame can be shared by many. We give too much money to foreign aid and in country aid. Abuse and waste of government money happens all the time. There is blame to be shared by many.
    How many people in the private sector do work for the government for free or give the government a discount on the services they provide? I'm sure some do, but most do not. The private sector is a for profit group. How many business owners start a business to loss money? How many people take jobs to not make money? If you did not really care about working for money you would not be called an employee, but a volunteer. I do not know anyone who applies for a job in the private sector and says I was offered several jobs with several different companies all in the same field, same amount of duties, equal driving distance from my house, and I choose the one that offered me the lowest salary, lowest benefit package, and when I retire I agreed to forfeit the gold watch. A business owner many hire this person, thinking I made out like a bandit on this deal. How long do you think it would take a wise owner to realize, he made a mistake? A person too stupid to look out for himself is not the person I want watching my back (building my business), again just my opinion.

    Terri

  7. #37
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Such countries often don't publicize labor statistics, so I'm left to rice-burner alnalogies. Our workers, union or not, if they expect to earn a decent wage to support a household, cannot compete with people who gladly accept what we would refuse.
    That is 100% incorrect.
    We just refuse to do what needs to be done.




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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I'd thought about teaching, and there was a serious shortage of teachers qualified to teach math & science in the state. I was working as an engineer making around $55k at the time as an engineer. When I looked into it, the starting salary was $25k with the average being around $45k after around 20 years of experience. I told them that they weren't serious about getting qualified math and science teachers with that kind of pay scale. They were insulted, telling me that they want people who are interested in teaching kids, not making money. I imagine that the salaries were cast in stone by a union contract.

    Here is some data on math and reading scores by state. I'll let you all sort it out for yourselves.

    http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/10s0260.pdf

    My daughter Liz recently had an assessment for reading level. She just started 6th grade and she has a reading level of 12.3, which means she has the reading proficiency of a 12th grader in the 3rd month of school. Her best friend tested at a 12.6. If I had to put the credit with anyone, I would put it with Liz's mom, not the school system.
    The NEA is adamant about not wanting to partition talent so math & science though they sit on the right side of the Bell Curve are lumped right in their with History & other subjects from the middle of the curve. The education system will gladly take credit for your daughter's achievements though in most cases it is no longer their credit. I along with my friends were fortunate enough when young to have some very good country school teachers. They took the best from the local schools who normally went to normal school for 12 weeks & they taught us when they were fresh out of high school. They then picked up an additional 18 weeks, 6 weeks at a time over the next 5 years. They were then a fully accredited elementary school teacher & most that I knew were quite good.

    The last time I saw rankings, SD was in the top 5 in the nation, so it shows money is'nt the full answer.

    I'd like to see more charter schools so kids would have a choice & a decent start in life.
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    Marvin S

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    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Such countries often don't publicize labor statistics, so I'm left to rice-burner alnalogies. Our workers, union or not, if they expect to earn a decent wage to support a household, cannot compete with people who gladly accept what we would refuse.
    Man Up & think for yourself !!!!!!!! For a guy who wants to act like the forum BS artist you showing yourself as a little shallow. I guess that's why they call you little Yardley . There are lots of things I would have liked to have done in life, but when what you do is easily copied you need to get on to something with a higher price of entry. Those who chose to continue on the easy path did so at their own risk except that the enablers have allowed them to sit around & commiserate rather than doing something useful. Maybe we need another CCC to teach people useful skills?
    __________________________

    Marvin S

    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    How dare they not work for a sac of rice and 50 cents per day like their Asian replacement is willing to do!

    The world is flat. Wake up!
    look up the LAW of comparative advantage. You might learn something about free trade and the fact that both sides benefit from trade no matter what the level of salaries of each country only that product which that country has a comparable advantage relative to the othere products it produces. Wikipedia has a good description if you choose to look it up. Higher general wages in one country as to another country does not have any affect on what country has a comparable advantage. Free trade between the countries raises the overall standard of living of both of them. Thankfully all presidents both democrat and republican have understood this LAW. oNLY UNIONS AND OTHER PROTECTIONISTS eithere don't understand it or don't care about the standard of living of society as a whole but only care about protecting those who produce those goods and services who can't compete and as a result do not have a comparable advantege.

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