veterans

[paul young]

i have become increasingly uncomfortable with how veterans are being treated by some on this forum.

these people have made sacrifices that are, in many cases, far beyond anything most of us can imagine. we all owe them a great debt, yet some would belittle their service and/or question their patriotism.

this has to stop. people, think before you hit "submit", PLEASE!-Paul

P.S.-stumpholehunter, check your pm's.

[dnf777]

I'll second that wholeheartedly.
Even if someone mentions "I was there", that does NOT open the game for attacks or smears, as some have taken license.

Thank you to all the veterans, active duty, and reservists on POTUS for your sacrafice, months or years away from family and dogs, and all you do.

[Hew]

For starters, I know I have never belittled anyone's service so I'm not responding in defense of any previous comments I've made. That said....

It is entirely possible to respect someone's military service while at the same time commenting unfavorably on that same person's opinions about, well, anything. I read something recently that I thought was pretty profound....that every veteran once signed their name to a blank check made payable to the United States for "up to and including my life." What sane or rational person wouldn't respect that? But that service doesn't grant them a lifetime free pass against saying or doing stupid things, and it sure doesn't grant them immunity from others commenting on those stupid things. I can respect the fact that Charles Manson once signed on the dotted line while at the same time think he's murdering lunatic.

I haven't been keeping up with every thread/post, so I really don't know what prompted the original post, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone here degrade another's service/sacrifice.

[subroc]

For starters, I know I have never belittled anyone's service so I'm not responding in defense of any previous comments I've made. That said....

It is entirely possible to respect someone's military service while at the same time commenting unfavorably on that same person's opinions about, well, anything. I read something recently that I thought was pretty profound....that every veteran once signed their name to a blank check made payable to the United States for "up to and including my life." What sane or rational person wouldn't respect that? But that service doesn't grant them a lifetime free pass against saying or doing stupid things, and it sure doesn't grant them immunity from others commenting on those stupid things. I can respect the fact that Charles Manson once signed on the dotted line while at the same time think he's murdering lunatic.

I haven't been keeping up with every thread/post, so I really don't know what prompted the original post, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone here degrade another's service/sacrifice.

I agree. service does not give carte blanche to stupid statments. service does not give moral authority above others.

[Clay Rogers]

I think the original post was meant to cover personal attacks, maybe like what RP said in the powell thread. I agree that service to this country doesn't give us free reign(it should, but it doesn't) to say and do as we please. I thank Paul for caring enough to say it though.

What Roger said didn't even bother me, as a matter of fact, I expected nothing less from him. He, like myself, believes what he believes(even if it's wrong) with all his heart, and if he can't debate without resorting to remarks like that then I am ok with that.


I had a woman at work last night call me an "elitist" because I served in the military. She said "You think you are better than the rest of us because you served in the military, don't you. You think you deserve special treatment." I thought about that the rest of the night and I came to this conclusion, she is right.

Just kidding.

[ducknwork]

i have become increasingly uncomfortable with how people in general are being treated by some on this forum.

this has to stop. people, think before you hit "submit", PLEASE!-Paul

P.S.-stumpholehunter, check your pm's.

Why single out veterans? Everyone deserves to be spoken to and about respectfully, regardless of whether or not they served in the military.

[road kill]

i have become increasingly uncomfortable with how veterans are being treated by some on this forum.

these people have made sacrifices that are, in many cases, far beyond anything most of us can imagine. we all owe them a great debt, yet some would belittle their service and/or question their patriotism.

this has to stop. people, think before you hit "submit", PLEASE!-Paul

P.S.-stumpholehunter, check your pm's.

Paul,
I appreciate your post as I have stood up for Veterans here on both sides of the political spectrum.
Both Roger Perry & stumpholehunter.

The issue is not really just Veterans.
The handful of people that are disrespectful to Vets are equally disrespectful to just about everyone at just about every chance.

I'll never forget what I saw, ever......and I will never forget the reaction when certain people (we will just call them "hippies"/progressives) found out where I had been.
Raised eyebrows and comments like "OOooohhhhh!!"
You see the media had painted a picture of us that was somewhat different than the reality.
Almost as if we were evil baby killers.
I would offer in my case I killed no one, but I was credited with the saving of a few.
But the comments hurt.

You never know what someone faced in the military.
Everyone faced something.

My favorite quote on our war is "All gave some, some gave all!"

That "ALL" can be different for each guy.


Your sentiments are appreciated, Paul.

Welcome Home stumpholehunter!!
Thank you!


RK

[Clay Rogers]

Why single out veterans? Everyone deserves to be spoken to and about respectfully, regardless of whether or not they served in the military.

Very well said.

[ducknwork]

Very well said.

Thank you...

That being said, I don't want it to appear that I meant to downplay veterans and current members of our military. I truly appreciate what all of you have done for all of us.

[YardleyLabs]

Why single out veterans? Everyone deserves to be spoken to and about respectfully, regardless of whether or not they served in the military.

Absolutely.

I respect acts of service and self sacrifice, even when I do not necessarily agree with the cause. I support our troops because we owe that support for those who sacrifice at the behest of their nation. However, I may still believe that the leaders who demanded that sacrifice are idiots and that the cause is not just.

Our country is defined by the beliefs and cultures of our citizens. No group owns the right to define what is or is not American. It is a moving target and has been since the nation was first formed by radicals who rejected the standing order and sought to change our nation to make it better. Our flag flies above all of us and our Constitution provides a flexible framework for working through our differences in peace.

Those who attack the patriotism of others and those who declare a person a hater of America because of their beliefs are themselves violating the spirit that has made is strong. Ad hominem attacks are generally used by those who are unable to put together arguments with substance. While the character of a person may reflect on their motives and on their honesty, it does not necessarily have anything to do with the validity of their positions.