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Thread: If You Can't Beat them on Issues.....

  1. #21
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    If I have to choose between a President who lies about his sex life or one who lies or otherwise breaks the law in the performance of his official duties, I'll go with lies about sex every time. When it comes to lying under oath, I am also a little more concerned about fulfilling the President's oath of office than about perjury in a trumped up trial financed as part of a conservative vendetta.

    Unfortunately, we seem too willing to accept lying from our Presidents in their official capacity as long as we agree with their messages. The Bush administration systematically mislead the people to gain support for the Iraq invasion. It systematically flaunted the law in its treatment of captives and its implementation of surveillance activities. When overturned by the courts, it simply ignored the decisions. Those, in my mind, are actions that directly violate the Presidential oath of office and constitute crimes.

    I don't consider Bush Sr's statements about taxes during the campaign to have been a crime in any way at all. It was a campaign promise that he could not keep without disastrous consequences. What he ended up doing was to honor his responsibilities as President and make a tough decision. It cost him his job, but that has to be a secondary consideration.

    Reagan's deals in the Iran Contra affair clearly rose to the level of crimes in the performance of his official duties as President. Once again, these were much more serious than questions of sleeping around and lying about it. The Democrats clearly had the votes to push through an impeachment, but never considered it.

    We have had three Presidential impeachments proceedings in our country's history: Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon, and Bill Clinton. In two of the three, Johnson and Clinton, the circumstances were clearly charges that, while technically correct, were fabricated by a determined opposition to overturn an election. Only one, the impeachment of Nixon, was actually a case where a President clearly abused his office for criminal purposes on a systematic basis. All three of the impeachment proceedings have failed to result in a single conviction, with Nixon's being ended only by his resignation.

    I suspect that the majority of our Presidents did things in office that could have been used as a technical basis for impeachment. If that becomes the norm whenever the President and Congress are at odds, our political system will collapse into civil war.

  2. #22
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    I don't consider Bush Sr's statements about taxes during the campaign to have been a crime in any way at all. It was a campaign promise that he could not keep without disastrous consequences. What he ended up doing was to honor his responsibilities as President and make a tough decision. It cost him his job, but that has to be a secondary consideration.
    .
    He did say "read my lips", which I suppose even under common law, fails to achieve "oath" status. Had he said "scouts honor" or "cross my heart, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye".....THEN it would have risen to high crimes status.

    But yes, he did look at the situation ahead, and made a responsible, yet unpopular decision. Oh, and by the way, perhaps coincidentally, we began the largest economic growth period in our nation's history, only to be followed by the largest reversal and contraction under his son's watch, some 14 years later.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  3. #23
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    If I have to choose between a President who lies about his sex life or one who lies or otherwise breaks the law in the performance of his official duties, I'll go with lies about sex every time. When it comes to lying under oath, I am also a little more concerned about fulfilling the President's oath of office than about perjury in a trumped up trial financed as part of a conservative vendetta.

    Unfortunately, we seem too willing to accept lying from our Presidents in their official capacity as long as we agree with their messages. The Bush administration systematically mislead the people to gain support for the Iraq invasion. It systematically flaunted the law in its treatment of captives and its implementation of surveillance activities. When overturned by the courts, it simply ignored the decisions. Those, in my mind, are actions that directly violate the Presidential oath of office and constitute crimes.

    I don't consider Bush Sr's statements about taxes during the campaign to have been a crime in any way at all. It was a campaign promise that he could not keep without disastrous consequences. What he ended up doing was to honor his responsibilities as President and make a tough decision. It cost him his job, but that has to be a secondary consideration.

    Reagan's deals in the Iran Contra affair clearly rose to the level of crimes in the performance of his official duties as President. Once again, these were much more serious than questions of sleeping around and lying about it. The Democrats clearly had the votes to push through an impeachment, but never considered it.

    We have had three Presidential impeachments proceedings in our country's history: Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon, and Bill Clinton. In two of the three, Johnson and Clinton, the circumstances were clearly charges that, while technically correct, were fabricated by a determined opposition to overturn an election. Only one, the impeachment of Nixon, was actually a case where a President clearly abused his office for criminal purposes on a systematic basis. All three of the impeachment proceedings have failed to result in a single conviction, with Nixon's being ended only by his resignation.

    I suspect that the majority of our Presidents did things in office that could have been used as a technical basis for impeachment. If that becomes the norm whenever the President and Congress are at odds, our political system will collapse into civil war.
    Do you understand there is a difference between a campaign promise and a court of law???


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  4. #24
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depittydawg View Post
    His successor committed the country to war by lying to the American people and to the world. He was also caught red handed lying about domestic spying on Americans. Neither of these were determined to be impeachable either. Go figure.
    Exactly what is it about "under oath" that you have difficulty understanding? We'd like to help you out (which door did you come in?). About your first claim, above: the common belief on both sides of the aisle was that Iraq did, indeed have WMDs and it's the Congress--not the POTUS--that commits the country to war. Might be informative for you to look up that vote. As for the second allegation, you know this how? Links please? Ahh, just remembered, you don't bother fact checking, you'd rather open mouth/insert foot.

  5. #25
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Pete...You've got to get rid of that avatar, it's making my eyes water.
    Walt
    [/QUOTE]

    Man, I'll second that.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    Pete...You've got to get rid of that avatar, it's making my eyes water.
    Walt
    Man, I'll second that.
    Make that a third. I mean, I know you are proud of your weight loss, but really.....


    [To be fair, Pete is actually very thin. I have horrifying images of him lying under the person in his avatar. No one would ever know.]

  7. #27
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walt8@cox.net View Post
    Pete
    Pete...You've got to get rid of that avatar, it's making my eyes water.
    Walt
    [/QUOTE]

    I'm thinking of putting him on the ignore list so I don't have to see that anymore.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    Pete...You've got to get rid of that avatar, it's making my eyes water.
    Walt
    Man, I'll second that.
    You guys are so happy that you are tearing up?

    I haven't done that since my last baby was born.

    Whatever floats your boat regards,

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post
    so you feel its perfectly acceptable for a president to get blowjobs in the oval office and then lie about it.

    sadly, that doesn't surprise me one bit.
    What married man would not lie about it? But for the Republicans to try to impeach him for it was too much for me. They tried 2 other times to impeach him but that did not work either.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post
    dont wad your panties up just yet dave, i have nothing else to say but what i just said. he lied under oath. period. how can it be good unless someone tries to claim he didnt lie under oath?

    too tired after a long weekend of hunt tests and glowing with a master pass shine regards......
    How many lives were lost over it. I suppose you condone all the lies the Bush administration handed out over his 8 years in office.

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