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Thread: For all you healthcare reform folks

  1. #31

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    The Bush tax cuts go into effect, and the government collects a record amount of money. Seems like tax cuts can work to bring in additional dollars just as the tax cuts did when Reagan was in office. The problem is not a lack of revenue, it is a lack of control with spending. My wife's wages have been frozen for the last three years, and my salary increase the last two years was a 0%, but the answer to our financial situation was not to go out and increase our spending. I am also tired of hearing how we have to "pay" for tax cuts. That is a bunch of baloney. IT IS MY MONEY!!!! The government does not have a right to take as much as they want to support a bunch of failed programs and government policies. Quit sending my money overseas, giving it to people who are unwilling to work for themselves, and to keep a bloated government afloat.

    Neither side seems to understand that if you do not have money, then something has to give. I am in charge of roughly 100 employees, and in the current economic situation we did not give raises. We cut staff, spending, and any expenses we could find to cut. We did not go out and ask anyone to pay more so we could give out big raises and buy things we cannot afford.

    The answer is simple - jump start the economy by allowing those evil rich people who create jobs to keep their money. Allow uppper middle class, middle class and every class to keep more of their money. They will invest and spend the money to get the economy going. Just quit taking my money to give tax credits to people who do not pay any taxes, and to give benefits to people who are capable of working, but refuse to get off the couch.

  2. #32
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Horstman View Post
    The Bush tax cuts go into effect, and the government collects a record amount of money. Seems like tax cuts can work to bring in additional dollars just as the tax cuts did when Reagan was in office. The problem is not a lack of revenue, it is a lack of control with spending. My wife's wages have been frozen for the last three years, and my salary increase the last two years was a 0%, but the answer to our financial situation was not to go out and increase our spending. I am also tired of hearing how we have to "pay" for tax cuts. That is a bunch of baloney. IT IS MY MONEY!!!! The government does not have a right to take as much as they want to support a bunch of failed programs and government policies. Quit sending my money overseas, giving it to people who are unwilling to work for themselves, and to keep a bloated government afloat.

    Neither side seems to understand that if you do not have money, then something has to give. I am in charge of roughly 100 employees, and in the current economic situation we did not give raises. We cut staff, spending, and any expenses we could find to cut. We did not go out and ask anyone to pay more so we could give out big raises and buy things we cannot afford.

    The answer is simple - jump start the economy by allowing those evil rich people who create jobs to keep their money. Allow uppper middle class, middle class and every class to keep more of their money. They will invest and spend the money to get the economy going. Just quit taking my money to give tax credits to people who do not pay any taxes, and to give benefits to people who are capable of working, but refuse to get off the couch.
    1. The theory that tax cuts result in increased revenues is easy to show as a hypothesis and hard to demonstrate in fact. Even accepting the Laffer Curve, the open question is where on the curve are we at any point in time. Most research suggests that even before the last round of tax cuts we were at a point where the advantages of cutting taxes further would be less than the cost. The experience with the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts supports this. A 2005 study y the CBO estimated that over a ten year period the revenue increases resulting from the tax cuts would only offset 28% of the revenues lost. As the full effects of the tax cuts have finally phased in, Federal revenues have dropped substantially as a percentage of GDP and in absolute dollar terms.

    2. The issue of "paying" for tax cuts is simple. If you cut revenues by $100 billion, you should cut spending by $100 billion at the same time. Discipline requires doing both together. Acting in a manner that cuts revenues now and promising to address spending at some future date never works. There are good economic reasons for incurring short term deficits during periods of economic slowdowns and incurring short term surpluses to constrain growth during periods when the economy is overheating. However, there is no excuse for long term deficits. Reagan and Bush both "financed" their tax cut programs by running up massive deficits, creating the conditions that subsequently resulted in economic balloons and collapses. Under Reagan, this produced the taxpayer financed collapses of the S&L industry and the bankruptcies of many pension plans. Both were paid for by taxpayers while the robber barons of excess walked away rich. Under Bush it resulted inthe collapse of 2006/7 that will haunt us for years to come.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Who's signature is on the bill responsible for the looming tax increase?

    Its real simple.
    Bill Clinton
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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  4. #34
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    Man, you guys are getting me all worried with this insurance increase talk! Oh well, I guess there is no reason to worry really...When I can no longer afford to buy insurance through Blue Cross and buy groceries to feed my family, I can always just drop my insurance and sign up for Obamacare. He'll take care of me when I no longer can. I feel so much better now.



    Maybe that was the plan all along regards,
    Quote Originally Posted by stumpholehunter View Post
    You know Duck, the increase in my insurance adds up to 2400 dollars a year. The supposed tax(fine) for not having insurance is 2500 dollars a year. Sound suspicious? Me thinks so.
    That is what I've been preaching for several months. When the fine is less than the premium and insurance can then be purchased when something in diagnosed, the number of uninsureds will likely double not go down. When this happens, you will not be buying insurance from an insurance company because they will no longer be offering a product that will be impossible to make a (dare I say) profit. The only remaining source will be the single payer system which is what Obamacare has always been about -forcing insurance companies out of the risk bearing business by making them claims payers for the Feds.

    Oh, and when we only have a single payer system, do you think the fine will still be $2500? I don't think so, Tim. There will not be a fine. Everyone will be forced to contribute just like now with income tax and SS tax. The quality of care will decline as will medical improvements, research for new drugs, etc. This will take some time to happen but rest assured our kids and grandkids are screwed. Look on the bright side. We will have free health care.

    November can't come quick enough regards,
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Clay Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    That is what I've been preaching for several months. When the fine is less than the premium and insurance can then be purchased when something in diagnosed, the number of uninsureds will likely double not go down. When this happens, you will not be buying insurance from an insurance company because they will no longer be offering a product that will be impossible to make a (dare I say) profit. The only remaining source will be the single payer system which is what Obamacare has always been about -forcing insurance companies out of the risk bearing business by making them claims payers for the Feds.

    Oh, and when we only have a single payer system, do you think the fine will still be $2500? I don't think so, TIM. There will not be a fine. Everyone will be forced to contribute just like now with income tax and SS tax. The quality of care will decline as will medical improvements, research for new drugs, etc. This will take some time to happen but rest assured our kids and grandkids are screwed. Look on the bright side. We will have free health care.

    November can't come quick enough regards,
    Who the heck is Tim?
    RIP SGT. David Blake Williams KIA 22 Mar 2008 Iraq


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  6. #36
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpholehunter View Post
    Who the heck is Tim?
    Tim The Tool Man Taylor. His assistant, Al, always said "I don't think so, Tim" when he said something dumb which was most of the time.
    Last edited by M&K's Retrievers; 09-28-2010 at 10:57 AM.
    M&K's HR UH Tucker of Texoma JH
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpholehunter View Post
    Who the heck is Tim?


  8. #38
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Horstman View Post
    The Bush tax cuts go into effect, and the government collects a record amount of money. Seems like tax cuts can work to bring in additional dollars just as the tax cuts did when Reagan was in office. The problem is not a lack of revenue, it is a lack of control with spending. My wife's wages have been frozen for the last three years, and my salary increase the last two years was a 0%, but the answer to our financial situation was not to go out and increase our spending. I am also tired of hearing how we have to "pay" for tax cuts. That is a bunch of baloney. IT IS MY MONEY!!!! The government does not have a right to take as much as they want to support a bunch of failed programs and government policies. Quit sending my money overseas, giving it to people who are unwilling to work for themselves, and to keep a bloated government afloat.

    Neither side seems to understand that if you do not have money, then something has to give. I am in charge of roughly 100 employees, and in the current economic situation we did not give raises. We cut staff, spending, and any expenses we could find to cut. We did not go out and ask anyone to pay more so we could give out big raises and buy things we cannot afford.

    The answer is simple - jump start the economy by allowing those evil rich people who create jobs to keep their money. Allow uppper middle class, middle class and every class to keep more of their money. They will invest and spend the money to get the economy going. Just quit taking my money to give tax credits to people who do not pay any taxes, and to give benefits to people who are capable of working, but refuse to get off the couch.
    Do you think about what you're typing?

    You don't want to pay for tax cuts? But you want to cut spending!

    What does paying for tax cuts mean?

    It means if you take in less money, you have to cut spending...

    But you believe that cutting taxes results in increased revenue. So, I guess if we cut taxes, that will reduce the deficit.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  9. #39
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    Since we are once again talking about taxes and the class envy that causes us all to hate the rich, I dug a little and found this gem from a couple years ago.

    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...ad.php?t=32356

    So true, so true.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    So, I guess if we cut taxes, that will reduce the deficit.
    George Bush tried that. Gave us a Great Recession, in which we are still mired.

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