The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 43

Thread: AIG Out of the Woods

  1. #11
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,763

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WaterDogRem View Post

    It's Funny how some people believe its a victory to save a company that follows questionable, failing, and immoral practices (reason they failed).
    I agree 100% but lets don't forget how the current administration likes to reward failure.

    Contrary to what Sambo posted, the failure of AIG would not have wrecked out financial system as it was already wrecked by the investment banking firms. All of whom have escaped prosecution because of thier ties to the White House.

    Sambo also states that "the experts agree". Which experts? The ones on the White House payroll.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Eastern NC
    Posts
    2,755

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    Sounds like a personal problem
    I guess since you won't clarify what you meant, I'll take a stab at it.

    You said my biggest complaint is dividend checks. I am assuming that you mean people on the govt dole.

    Here's the deal, sambo. When I take MY money and invest it in something, be it a business, 401K, stocks, slot machine, etc...and the thing that I invested in makes money, I will receive my original investment, plus a dividend. SO...if the govt took MY money and invested it in AIG and now are going to receive a profit, I should receive a % of the dividends equal to the % stake I held in the company as a result of MY money being invested.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,763

    Default

    Upon further review here is the bad deal for tax payers;

    As of June 30, AIG still had $132.1 billion in outstanding aid from the government, including $49.1 billion in loans from the Treasury Department. The new shares will give the Treasury a 92.1 percent stake in AIG before it begins selling shares.

    .............................

    The Gov is swapping Preferred Stock for Common Stock, taking a larger share of AIG in the HOPES that thier price per share increases! In other words, the Gov. is playing investor speculating on AIG stock.

    Tax Payers might be better off it the Gov kept the preferred stock and sold it to private investors. What if the stock price falls and stays low because AIG's reputation is not anywhere close to being good? With a 92% ownership, there is a slim to no chance if the Feds try an sell that much stock that the price will rise because rising stock prices are caused by the demand for that stock! Oh, and slim just left town.
    Last edited by Franco; 09-30-2010 at 01:31 PM.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  4. #14
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,290

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    I guess since you won't clarify what you meant, I'll take a stab at it.

    You said my biggest complaint is dividend checks. I am assuming that you mean people on the govt dole.

    Here's the deal, sambo. When I take MY money and invest it in something, be it a business, 401K, stocks, slot machine, etc...and the thing that I invested in makes money, I will receive my original investment, plus a dividend. SO...if the govt took MY money and invested it in AIG and now are going to receive a profit, I should receive a % of the dividends equal to the % stake I held in the company as a result of MY money being invested.
    I'll take a crack at this too. I agree had the government taken your money and invested it you should be entitled to a dividend, but they didn't. They borrowed the money because they were the only ones that could borrow at the time and loaned money to this company that has now been converted to common stock which will be sold to the public returning the loaned money with appreciation.

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Eastern NC
    Posts
    2,755

    Default

    Where did they get the money they loaned to AIG?

  6. #16
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,290

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Upon further review here is the bad deal for tax payers;

    As of June 30, AIG still had $132.1 billion in outstanding aid from the government, including $49.1 billion in loans from the Treasury Department. The new shares will give the Treasury a 92.1 percent stake in AIG before it begins selling shares.

    .............................

    The Gov is swapping Preferred Stock for Common Stock, taking a larger share of AIG in the HOPES that thier price per share increases! In other words, the Gov. is playing investor speculating on AIG stock.

    Tax Payers might be better off it the Gov kept the preferred stock and sold it to private investors. What if the stock price falls and stays low because AIG's reputation is not anywhere close to being good? With a 92% ownership, there is a slim to no chance if the Feds try an sell that much stock that the price will rise because rising stock prices are caused by the demand for that stock! Oh, and slim just left town.
    I don't see the problem in this. I deal with customers all the time that have to give up the majority of their company for debt and equity investments. If the company is doing well they have to give up smaller percentages, but in AIG's case, I think we can agree their would be no AIG had the government not stepped in.

  7. #17
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,290

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    Where did they get the money they loaned to AIG?
    Mostly from Soverign Enties and large corporations that park their cash in treasuries

  8. #18
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,290

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    I agree 100% but lets don't forget how the current administration likes to reward failure.

    Contrary to what Sambo posted, the failure of AIG would not have wrecked out financial system as it was already wrecked by the investment banking firms. All of whom have escaped prosecution because of thier ties to the White House.

    Sambo also states that "the experts agree". Which experts? The ones on the White House payroll.
    Yes it would have, because the counterparty losses to the other banks would have further wiped out the capital, or we would have had to have loaned them more money

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Eastern NC
    Posts
    2,755

    Default

    I really have to stop taking yalls word for things and do some digging on my own... This doesn't sound as peachy as you have made it out to sound, sambo.

    If I am reading this article correctly, they aren't paying anything back because they are doing so well, but they are paying the govt back our money because they are having a garage sale. It sounds similar to paying off your credit card because you sold your boat, not because you got a raise at work. That makes it a little less impressive to me.

    I'll bold my favorite parts.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_690849.html

    In its single biggest repayment of bailout loans so far, American International Group Inc. said Monday it is paying back nearly $4 billion in taxpayer aid with proceeds from a recent debt sale.

    The insurer's aircraft leasing company, International Lease Finance Corp., completed the sale of $4.4 billion in debt. AIG will use more than $3.9 billion of the proceeds to repay the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, trimming the balance on its credit line with the Fed to about $15 billion. Adding interest, the total is about $21 billion.

    The emergency credit line was part of a $182 billion federal bailout package that New York-based AIG received during the financial crisis to avoid collapse. AIG has been selling off assets to pay back the aid.

    "This is continuing tangible evidence of AIG's progress in repaying the American taxpayers," said Robert Benmosche, AIG President and CEO. "AIG is getting stronger every day. We still have more work to do, but we will finish the job and make sure we repay the American taxpayers."Just as I thought when I asked you where they got the money. It was from US, the american taxpayers.

    As of June 30, excluding the new payment, AIG said its outstanding balance owed to the government stood at about $101 billion. The total includes debt as well as preferred shares of stock in AIG held by the Treasury Department.

    Los Angeles-based ILFC leases one of the world's biggest commercial jet fleets. It struggled earlier this year to pay off its loans, and had to draw the $3.9 billion from AIG to pay back some of its debt. AIG had tried to find a buyer for the unit, but any sale seems off the table for now as ILFC has found healthy demand for recent bond offerings which will help it meet some deadlines for paying back loans.

    The repayment will release about $10 billion of collateral that ILFC had pledged to the Fed under the credit agreement. With the recent debt sales and other notes issues, the aircraft unit has boosted its total liquidity assets that can quickly be converted to cash to more than $12.5 billion over the last five months.

    The offerings "are a direct reflection of our company's viability and future prospects as a leader in leasing aircraft to the world's airlines," said Henri Courpron, ILFC's CEO. He noted that the company has more than $13 billion in aircraft orders.

    Separately, AIG said it will book a pretax charge of about $650 million against its earnings due to the repayment.

    AIG shares dipped 13 cents to $35.04. The stock has traded in a 52-week range of $21.54 to $55.90.

    In June, the Congressional Oversight Panel said in a report that it was still unclear whether U.S. taxpayers will ever fully recoup the full $182 billion they plowed into AIG.

    Regulators feared AIG's collapse would pose a threat to the whole U.S. financial system, in part because of AIG's dealings in financial contracts called credit default swaps. The swaps that AIG sold were insurance-like guarantees on mortgage securities that wound up forcing AIG to pay out billions of dollars after the housing market went bust.

    Earlier this month, AIG reported a $538 million second-quarter loss due to charges related to selling assets to repay the bailout money. Among the charges were $3.42 billion related to the sales of AIG's American Life Insurance Co. unit, or Alico, and its Nan Shan Life Insurance Co.

  10. #20
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,290

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    I really have to stop taking yalls word for things and do some digging on my own... This doesn't sound as peachy as you have made it out to sound, sambo.

    If I am reading this article correctly, they aren't paying anything back because they are doing so well, but they are paying the govt back our money because they are having a garage sale. It sounds similar to paying off your credit card because you sold your boat, not because you got a raise at work. That makes it a little less impressive to me.

    I'll bold my favorite parts.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_690849.html
    This is not June this is Oct. Things Change. They will do a road show as for any public offering and raise cash in the market. The analyst that follow this and have a handle on the valuation of the company as is today, believe that they will sell the governments ownership and the government will realize a profit. What you are doing is called "weak form" efficency, as Fama proved is not reliable because you are looking backwards. Valuation is based on what the company will do going forward.

    But having said all this, our government has a history of passing out money and never getting any of it back. Think about our 2 wars. Is any of that money coming back? So even if we don't recoup everything, this is administration has made a real effort at getting your money back and paying for what they have implemented. You may not like the taxes, but at least they are paying their way, unlike the right that spends and cuts taxes and them blames the democrats for raising your taxes.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •