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Thread: AIG Out of the Woods

  1. #31
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Raven didn't pick up all the birds in the 1st at Lincoln.
    Sam finally got his head out of his ass and has been making some good decisions these last few trials. Patience Raven is a good dog. He is just young like Sam.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    I don't like it either. But I like it better than had they not bailed them out. I assure you the government did not go looking for this, and I assure you they don't like rewarding these crooks. They did this to keep it from hurting americans. It's real easy to armchair quarterback this, now that we are not all in a soup line.

    Sam is back to the 2nd at MO River
    I was against ALL the bailouts from the get-go!

    Hurting Americans was the excuse they used to bailout their political contributors. What about the massive debt that was created? That will hurt ALL of America much more. I doubt tax payers will ever see all thier money back much less at a profit to the government from either GM or AIG.

    The more we move away from the Free Enetrprise system, the more our Standard Of Living will fall!

    As investors or savers we take risk and there should be no guarantees. If you don't want to take the risk, then do what I do and put your $ in a Money Market account earning next to nothing until you can invest it wisely. If earning less than 1% is not to one's liking, then take the risk. But, when that risk fails, shame on the Feds for bailing folks out.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  3. #33
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    I was against ALL the bailouts from the get-go!

    Hurting Americans was the excuse they used to bailout their political contributors. What about the massive debt that was created? That will hurt ALL of America much more. I doubt tax payers will ever see all thier money back much less at a profit to the government from either GM or AIG.

    The more we move away from the Free Enetrprise system, the more our Standard Of Living will fall!

    As investors or savers we take risk and there should be no guarantees. If you don't want to take the risk, then do what I do and put your $ in a Money Market account earning next to nothing until you can invest it wisely. If earning less than 1% is not to one's liking, then take the risk. But, when that risk fails, shame on the Feds for bailing folks out.
    The government did not lose on TARP so it is not responsible for hurting americans. All the debt is a collection of entitlements, wars, etc that you can only blame the current leadership for a little of.

    Trust me on this one. If the majority changes to the right, they will spend too and as much or more. So please don't buy into their conservative rhetoric. Also the Tea party is not going to change them either. They are just using them for the block vote they get with them.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    The government did not lose on TARP so it is not responsible for hurting americans. All the debt is a collection of entitlements, wars, etc that you can only blame the current leadership for a little of.

    Trust me on this one. If the majority changes to the right, they will spend too and as much or more. So please don't buy into their conservative rhetoric. Also the Tea party is not going to change them either. They are just using them for the block vote they get with them.
    ahhhhh..so we should all vote to keep the democrats in control just like they are now?

    thanks for clearing that up! i didnt realize we were just being lied to by the conservatives all along. i am starting to agree that we should keep things just as they are.

  5. #35
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post
    ahhhhh..so we should all vote to keep the democrats in control just like they are now?

    thanks for clearing that up! i didnt realize we were just being lied to by the conservatives all along. i am starting to agree that we should keep things just as they are.
    The decision is not how much they spend....it is what they spend it on. I would look hard at what trinkles down to you and vote your conscience. I have found personnally that the dems work best for me, however, you may be richer than me. I'm just a poor country boy.

  6. #36
    Senior Member BrianW's Avatar
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    Curious, AIG sells assets at a known value that could be used to pay back a fixed amount "loan", but instead "pays" the govt back with a theoretical value instrument that in effect leaves the taxpayers more on the hook as majority owners of the company. Everything in this deal is dependent on image & "if" scenarios; if AIG raises "x" amount of capital then they can claim "y" amount of equity. Then if "y" is present, and if it can maintain a "A" credit rating, if the govt holds onto those shares for a certain amount of time to convince investors blah, blah, blah.

    Sorry this waaay too much like the crap that got us into this mess in the first place for me. Projected earning based on analyst estimates of asset values based on current market trends...

    Nope, sell the boat (and not at a loss so you can claim a write-off as a theoretical asset) and give me that cash. If AIG really learned it's lesson in the business world and are such a candidate to be the world's largest insurance company, then private investors will flock to your "product" and your company will survive and maybe flourish in the real world. Which is the way it should be.
    I know that's not how you big high roller mucky-mucks "play the game" but I'm tired of playing and want out.
    "It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
    Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
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  7. #37
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Curious, AIG sells assets at a known value that could be used to pay back a fixed amount "loan", but instead "pays" the govt back with a theoretical value instrument that in effect leaves the taxpayers more on the hook as majority owners of the company. Everything in this deal is dependent on image & "if" scenarios; if AIG raises "x" amount of capital then they can claim "y" amount of equity. Then if "y" is present, and if it can maintain a "A" credit rating, if the govt holds onto those shares for a certain amount of time to convince investors blah, blah, blah.

    Sorry this waaay too much like the crap that got us into this mess in the first place for me. Projected earning based on analyst estimates of asset values based on current market trends...

    Nope, sell the boat (and not at a loss so you can claim a write-off as a theoretical asset) and give me that cash. If AIG really learned it's lesson in the business world and are such a candidate to be the world's largest insurance company, then private investors will flock to your "product" and your company will survive and maybe flourish in the real world. Which is the way it should be.
    I know that's not how you big high roller mucky-mucks "play the game" but I'm tired of playing and want out.
    I assure you we are better off owning the stock. Since you brought up debt rating, converting the debt to stock improved the debt rating. Just write your congress person and tell them you want to forgive the debt, but if you are willing to wait, the obligation will be met.

    I'm sorry you have a simple mind, but the financial world is not simple and has not been for a long time. Thank God, better minds are worrying about this for you.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    I assure you we are better off owning the stock. Since you brought up debt rating, converting the debt to stock improved the debt rating. Just write your congress person and tell them you want to forgive the debt, but if you are willing to wait, the obligation will be met.

    I'm sorry you have a simple mind, but the financial world is not simple and has not been for a long time. Thank God, better minds are worrying about this for you.
    I'm calling major BS on this!

    First of all, tax payers will still be out of 30 billion dollars if TARP and AIG payoff and that's a big "if". Breaking it down to terms you may understand, that's 30,000 million!

    The reprecussions had we not baileed them out will never be known but one thing is for sure, it wouldn't have been nearly as bad as the know-nothing politicians would try and make us believe.

    If you can't see that that the bailouts were political payback then there is no help for you Sambo. Wall Steet made the rules, they continue to make the rules, and they have a license to steal. The recent reform is a joke only setting up the next meltdown. Timothey Geitner is a fool and if you believe his figures, escpically during a campaign year, then you really are very gullible.

    They should have been allowed to fail. But, the current administration is notorious for rewarding failure. Had they been allowed to take thier natural course, we wouldn't be in the debt we are in today and investors, tax payers and this country would be better off for it!
    Last edited by Franco; 10-05-2010 at 02:20 PM.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    I agree 100% but lets don't forget how the current administration likes to reward failure.

    Contrary to what Sambo posted, the failure of AIG would not have wrecked out financial system as it was already wrecked by the investment banking firms. All of whom have escaped prosecution because of thier ties to the White House.

    Sambo also states that "the experts agree". Which experts? The ones on the White House payroll.
    What "current" administration? Did you forget the bailout was designed and blueprinted by Henry Paulsen?

  10. #40
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depittydawg View Post
    What "current" administration? Did you forget the bailout was designed and blueprinted by Henry Paulsen?
    The AIG bailout is Geithner's folly...

    On the frenzied day in September 2008 when the federal government bailed out insurance giant American International Group, Timothy F. Geithner logged dozens of calls with top Wall Street executives, Washington regulators, political leaders and even investor Warren Buffett.
    At the time, the Treasury secretary was head of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, which played a lead role in organizing AIG's rescue. His call logs, obtained by The Washington Post, are among 250,000 pages of documents the New York Fed recently turned over in response to a subpoena from the chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
    Records show that Geithner participated in nearly 70 calls between 7:45 a.m. and 10 p.m. on Tuesday, Sept. 16, as officials worked to stabilize AIG -- first through private loans and finally through public assistance. They feared the company's collapse might trigger other failures and endanger the financial system.
    Geithner spoke most often to Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and then-Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., as well as with AIG chief executive Robert Willumstad. He also shared numerous calls with top financial executives, including Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs, Jamie Dimon of J.P. Morgan Chase and Vikram Pandit of Citigroup.


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    Last edited by Franco; 10-06-2010 at 12:10 PM.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

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