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Thread: How's That Obamacare Doing...

  1. #31
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom View Post
    OK, let's get real

    You PAY for your health care one way or another! THERE IS NO FREE ICE (government run health care is NOT free health care)
    So the real question is what costs less, and what are the choices.
    Does insurance cost our society less than government run health care?
    Sorry but what I see happening in other countries leads me to believe that maybe we have our collective heads stuck in the sand, and are being taken to the cleaners in the process.

    Thinking that big business is the only solution to every problem in America is just plain stupid in my opinion. All that does is insure that the rich will get richer, and YOU will become poorer.

    I owned my own business for many years, so I am not anti business by any means. But, as a (small) business owner I found out the hard way just what our current health care system actually costs! (thinking that you are getting a "good deal" because your boss is picking up part of the tab for your health insurance is idiotic!) THERE IS NO FREE ICE!
    Thinking that government is the only solution to every problem in America is just plain stupid in my opinion. All that does is insure that the rich will get richer, and YOU will become poorer.

    Just sayin'



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  2. #32
    Senior Member tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    We have a bit of a dilema here in Florida on which crook to vote for in the race for Governor. Has somewhat to do with Medicare.

    On the Republican side is Rick Scott
    One questioned Scott's decision to plead the Fifth Amendment 75 times in a lawsuit involving one of his companies.

    After months of being tarred for mammoth fraud at the hospital company he founded, Republican gubernatorial nominee Rick Scott is launching his own hard-hitting ad, accusing Democrat Alex Sink of bilking investors as the Florida president of NationsBank in the 1990s.
    Scott has said repeatedly he "takes responsibility" for the billions of dollars in illegal Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements Columbia/HCA collected under his watch. Scott was forced out of the company in the late 1990s after the U.S. Justice Department announced its Medicare fraud investigation.

    And on the Democratic side Alex Sink

    One claims that as president of NationsBank Florida she was responsible for questionable sales practices conducted by a separate securities company that reported to NationsBank Corp.
    The other ad echoes one from Scott's Republican allies that singles out Sink for blame over state pension fund losses she, along with Gov. Charlie Crist and Attorney General Bill McCollum, was one of three members of the board administering the trust fund.
    Oh, you mean like ......
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39169696/
    "there is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance --- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
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  3. #33
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Thinking that government is the only solution to every problem in America is just plain stupid in my opinion. All that does is insure that the rich will get richer, and YOU will become poorer.

    Just sayin'



    RK
    Especially when the gov't is run by corporate lobbyists.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom View Post
    So you are saying that the system we have been using isn't working all that well. Welcome to the club!! Why not try to see if we can fix it!!!!!!!!

    Then we should have attacked that problem, not passed more BS that won't solve any of the existing problems and add its own.

    Kinda like saying "someone has to pay the bills", "so lets lower taxes".
    No, it's more like saying "someone has to pay the bills", "I like ice cream".

    Completely irrelevant and unrelated to the real issues.

  5. #35
    Senior Member tom's Avatar
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    Completely irrelevant and unrelated to the real issues.
    Oh is it?!?

    Bottom line is "how should we pay the bills"!

    You guys seem to want lower taxes, less government, and lower wages, so just how is it that you expect to pay your medical bills?

    My little go around with the heart surgeons only cost 185K. My share of the bill was $37,000.00 plus insurance premiums already payed over the course of 40 years. Think it won't happen to you ---- guess again my friend!
    Having had heart surgery, would you like to take a guess on what I have to pay for insurance!?! (even with Medicare part A)

    Then we should have attacked that problem, not passed more BS that won't solve any of the existing problems and add its own.
    Now we are getting somewhere! How about you listing what those problems are, and how we should fix them.
    All I ever hear is what we shouldn't do, no one wants to say what we should do!!!!
    You look at the list of things that the GOP conjured up, and we are right back to the same place. Nothing gets fixed and it adds more problems!

    Is there a solution? In my book YES there is, all the idiots in Washington have to do is quit the turf wars, and do what is right for the country!
    Doesn't matter if they go insurance based or government based, just as long as they regulate it properly. Everyone pays the insurance premiums OR they pay the taxes. Either way we will have about the same number of people earning their living off it.
    Last edited by tom; 10-06-2010 at 03:24 PM.
    "there is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance --- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    much cheaper.

    The best thing that could happen in this country to control health care costs and to improve our economic competitiveness is to get employers completely out of the business of financing health care. I find it interesting that those who complain about "ObamaCare" are almost invariably covered by insurance paid for by someone else. I don't see anyone out there fighting to pay the bills themselves.

    Normally I'm philosophically on the other end of the spectrum from Jeff, but this is the crux of the problem right here. From my rather unscientific observation, I've noticed that those that have had government or other good health care coverage for all or most of their adult lives aren't the slightest bit concerned with the outrageous costs of certain medications or routine medical procedures, tests, etc.,, because they have no idea what they actually cost. Why, for example, is New Drug A $300 a month, when Generic B at $4 a month would suffice?

    If you're under- or uninsured you question the cost and find something that works that isn't as expensive. And if not for insurance Big Pharma wouldn't be able to charge such high prices for New Drug A or Re-invented, extended release New Drug B because people would opt for the cheaper version. Instead, they're allowed to "price fix" via big insurance and Medicare-Medicaid which apparently never question the costs.

    Something is very wrong when the very things that perpetuate waste and fraud aren't fixed first, before making any sweeping reforms.

  7. #37
    Senior Member tom's Avatar
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    The best thing that could happen in this country to control health care costs and to improve our economic competitiveness is to get employers completely out of the business of financing health care. I find it interesting that those who complain about "ObamaCare" are almost invariably covered by insurance paid for by someone else. I don't see anyone out there fighting to pay the bills themselves.
    I have to agree with that also.

    Except
    I don't see anyone out there fighting to pay the bills themselves
    Most small businesses (like me) have been saying that for years.
    The problem is the disparity in insurance costs. If a person buys their own it is at a different price.
    (seems like that is one of the problems addressed in health care reform --- too bad that the GOP thinks that is one of the things that has to wait for a few years)
    Last edited by tom; 10-06-2010 at 03:49 PM.
    "there is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance --- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
    Herbert Spencer

  8. #38
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom View Post
    I have to agree with that also.

    Except


    Most small businesses (like me) have been saying that for years.
    The problem is the disparity in insurance costs. If a person buys their own it is at a different price.

    And to think, they claim to be friends of small business. Those defenders of the current system I mean...
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    The problem is the disparity in insurance costs. If a person buys their own it is at a different price.
    The disparity in insurance costs is due to the arithmetic. You can charge less per person if you know that your group will have enough healthy people to offset the sick people. So, in a small group with mostly older people, costs for the group are likely to be higher than if the group was younger. Based on age alone, if the employees remain stable with their employer, they grow older each year & more likely to need health care.

    Every business operates this way really. If you go to estimate a job, and don't get the job, you have to build the cost of your time into one of the jobs you do get. Basically the old saying 20% of your customers are responsible for 80% of your problems. You may have to charge the same price to everyone (except for volume discounts & the like), but you will make more profit on some customers than others. You set your price so that it balances out.

    I'm with Julie ... and some health plans now do provide for it, I think, that if there is a generic drug that does the same thing as a newer drug, they will only pay for the generic. If there are stupid things in the way we do things now, fix the stupid stuff, then maybe there's a chance that you can control costs on a universal plan.

    When I listen to some of the ads on TV for new drugs, I don't think I want to take any of them! I love the one for asthma relief that notes the drug may cause death from asthma! Uh ... excuse me. Then there's another drug that mentions it can cause cancer. Yup, gonna run right out and try that one.

    As an aside, Medicare ain't exactly free. First you pay into the plan during your working life, for Part A. Then they deduct another $93 a month for Part B. But you really need to get your own supplemental coverage (for me that's $130 month); and then the prescription drug coverage is another $103/mo. Granted, as one ages & is more likely to need those coverages, the price may still be a pretty good deal ... but it sure ain't free.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie R. View Post
    Normally I'm philosophically on the other end of the spectrum from Jeff, but this is the crux of the problem right here. From my rather unscientific observation, I've noticed that those that have had government or other good health care coverage for all or most of their adult lives aren't the slightest bit concerned with the outrageous costs of certain medications or routine medical procedures, tests, etc.,, because they have no idea what they actually cost. Why, for example, is New Drug A $300 a month, when Generic B at $4 a month would suffice?

    If you're under- or uninsured you question the cost and find something that works that isn't as expensive. And if not for insurance Big Pharma wouldn't be able to charge such high prices for New Drug A or Re-invented, extended release New Drug B because people would opt for the cheaper version. Instead, they're allowed to "price fix" via big insurance and Medicare-Medicaid which apparently never question the costs.

    Something is very wrong when the very things that perpetuate waste and fraud aren't fixed first, before making any sweeping reforms.
    Interesting. I don't know anybody who has had "government" health insurance most of their lives. The only people covered by government I've ever seen are kids and old people. The rest of us have always been on our own.

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