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Thread: A Dichotomy of Opinion....

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Covey View Post
    Its not like you can get out of paying for social security or medicaid/medicare so you would be stupid not to use it. That doesn't mean that the programs should be continued. If the Social Security was so popular and such a great program why is it not voluntary. Let people opt in if they want and if not they get no money later. Of course democrats would never let this happen because it would collapse immediately i would imagine.
    Itís called hypocrisy. How can you be against something, yet see nothing wrong with benefiting from it? If you are truly opposed to the programs, it wouldnít be stupid not to take the money & benefits, it would be a matter of principle. Of course, there just donít seem to be that many principled people these days.

    Social Security is pretty popular with, and a great program for, most of those that receive the benefits. However, itís just like any other tax. No one wants to pay it. I pay taxes now that I wouldnít if they werenít mandatory. I pay school taxes, but I donít have any kids. School taxes arenít popular with me. That tax money doesnít benefit me directly. Why canít I, and others like me, opt out? I promise I wonít try to go to public school later.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    In my area, the same seems to hold true also. The people who benefit the most from gov't cheese, are the most vocal about "smaller goob'mint" and getting rid of the very entitlement programs they use daily. (meth clinics, public transportation, medical assist/medicaide, foodstamps, etc...)
    I've been saying for awhile that I hope ALL the kooks win this November. Give voters the change the deserve...
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
    I think it speaks to just how fickle the American public really is. Most are against gov. programs except for the program(s) that benefit them. Most are against gov. intervention unless it benefits them. Look how many people supported the invasion of Iraq. Bush told everyone it would not be a quick operation. Yet, the majority of the American public bought into it. Now, some of the same people that supported it wholeheartedly, are railing against it because of the number of Americans killed, and because it has taken so long to resolve. I recently listened to an interview with an author that wrote a book about the demographics of the Tea Party membership. According to the author, about 20% are over age 65, receive Social Security, and receive some form of Medicaid and/or Medicare related benefits. Yet, they say they are against gov. programs because they are just a form of socialism.
    Just for the record Bush did not tell them that is was going to take time and American lives. Now it is the publics fault for believing that a few months and bombs would fix their problems.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juli H View Post
    This cracks me up.

    THere is a family here in Tok, who are on just about every known federal and state assistance program known to mankind. They have like 6 kids with a 7th on the way...And yet they support one of the most conservative candidates to represent our state at the federal level - Joe Miller...
    LOL...
    It's because the Glen Becks of the world have sold them that the republicans have their back when that is sooooo not true.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
    I think it speaks to just how fickle the American public really is. Most are against gov. programs except for the program(s) that benefit them. Most are against gov. intervention unless it benefits them. Look how many people supported the invasion of Iraq. Bush told everyone it would not be a quick operation. Yet, the majority of the American public bought into it. Now, some of the same people that supported it wholeheartedly, are railing against it because of the number of Americans killed, and because it has taken so long to resolve. I recently listened to an interview with an author that wrote a book about the demographics of the Tea Party membership. According to the author, about 20% are over age 65, receive Social Security, and receive some form of Medicaid and/or Medicare related benefits. Yet, they say they are against gov. programs because they are just a form of socialism.
    Most Americans including myself and members of Congress supported the invasion because we were sold on WMD's.

    At no time were we told we would be rebuilding their country and trying to bring a Democracy to Iraq. That all came after Bush and Cheney looked at one another and asked, "what do we do now"?

    Even Bush thought the job was done with the Mission Accomplished speech. After that is when it all went to hell with thier grand experiment of bring Democarcy to a country that really doesn't want it. Ditto for A'stan. The mission should be to bring Bin Laudin to justice, if the A'stan folks want a Democarcy, let them earn it!

    In regards to SS;
    I've been forced to pay into it and I surely expect to get some of my money back. The reality is the entire concept of the SS program was big government overstepping thier duties! Had they (big gooberment) stuck to what they should have been doing we wouldn't have SS and the problems today with all the SS entitlements and cost.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    Just for the record Bush did not tell them that is was going to take time and American lives. Now it is the publics fault for believing that a few months and bombs would fix their problems.
    I was in error. The original rhetoric from some within the Bush administration did suggest it would be a short lived conflict:

    Feb. 7, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."

    March 16, Vice President Cheney, on NBC's Meet the Press: "I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months."


    It was my mistake that Bush commented on the length of the war prior to the beginning of the war. The comments I was thinking of came within days after the war started:

    March 20, President Bush, in an Oval Office speech to the nation: "A campaign on the harsh terrain of a nation as large as California could be longer and more difficult than some predict."

    March 27, Bush, at a news conference with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, when asked how long the war would take: "However long it takes. That's the answer to your question and that's what you've got to know. It isn't a matter of timetable, it's a matter of victory."


    I agree with you. The American public should not have been so eager to delude themselves into believing it would be a quickly resolved war. That further proves my point that the American public, in general, is fickle.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Most Americans including myself and members of Congress supported the invasion because we were sold on WMD's.

    At no time were we told we would be rebuilding their country and trying to bring a Democracy to Iraq. That all came after Bush and Cheney looked at one another and asked, "what do we do now"?

    Even Bush thought the job was done with the Mission Accomplished speech. After that is when it all went to hell with thier grand experiment of bring Democarcy to a country that really doesn't want it. Ditto for A'stan. The mission should be to bring Bin Laudin to justice, if the A'stan folks want a Democarcy, let them earn it!
    I was not one that supported the invasion. I would have been if the administration had provided definitive proof that WMDs existed, but they didnít. I am in agreement with you. Once they didnít find any WMDs, they didnít know how to justify the invasion. They began to spin the story on the reason we were really there. It went from the search WMDs to Operation Iraqi Freedom to The War on Terror. People seemed to get onboard with the latter, so it stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    In regards to SS;
    I've been forced to pay into it and I surely expect to get some of my money back. The reality is the entire concept of the SS program was big government overstepping thier duties! Had they (big gooberment) stuck to what they should have been doing we wouldn't have SS and the problems today with all the SS entitlements and cost.

    I cannot say I agree with how the SS program has been run, but I think the program has helped a lot of people, old & young, that would otherwise have fallen through the cracks in our society. The same it true for Medicaid & Medicare.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
    Itís called hypocrisy. How can you be against something, yet see nothing wrong with benefiting from it? If you are truly opposed to the programs, it wouldnít be stupid not to take the money & benefits, it would be a matter of principle. Of course, there just donít seem to be that many principled people these days.

    Social Security is pretty popular with, and a great program for, most of those that receive the benefits. However, itís just like any other tax. No one wants to pay it. I pay taxes now that I wouldnít if they werenít mandatory. I pay school taxes, but I donít have any kids. School taxes arenít popular with me. That tax money doesnít benefit me directly. Why canít I, and others like me, opt out? I promise I wonít try to go to public school later.
    It's not hypocrisy to be FORCED into a program where you again are FORCED to pay for "retirement" then not use that retirement money.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Covey View Post
    It's not hypocrisy to be FORCED into a program where you again are FORCED to pay for "retirement" then not use that retirement money.
    But, you have a choice not to use it if you don't want to. I understand why you feel you should take it. However, if I were that opposed to it, I wouldn't use it. But, that's just me.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
    But, you have a choice not to use it if you don't want to. I understand why you feel you should take it. However, if I were that opposed to it, I wouldn't use it. But, that's just me.
    You mind if I hoist the BS flag on that? Using your logic you're either a tax fugitive or are you are a hypocrite who has paid taxes to fund a war he doesn't support.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

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