Failure of Motion to Dismiss

[caryalsobrook]

I have spoken to several Doctors, nurses and healthcare providers over the last few years. Every one of them is an advocate of single payer healthcare. They live the life, and bare the expense of dealing with the fraudulent health insurance companies on a daily basis. Not once, has a healthcare professional responded to my inquiries with a positive assessment of the current state of healthcare, as administered by the Insurance Companies of America.
The fact that Medicare has issues is just another factor presenting the need for healthcare reform in America. Why did the Republican Party BLOCK all attemps at reform. Why did they NOT offer up any proposals for reform of their own?
I'll say one more thing, then I'm done with this topic. We can agree to disagree. When reform is necessary, a public institution, such as Medicare is directly responsive to the political leaders we put in place. They can clean it up. When an private industry, such as healthcare today (their are many other examples), spins out of control it is a much more difficult task to initiate change. Another good argument for a public option.

You say you have asked for a healthcare professional's opinion of insurance companies and have not gotten any. Well, here is mine. In 35 years of practice, I had EXACTLY 2 disagreements with insurance companies (excluding government policies and I will get to them later), that were not easily resolved. One was handled by me by filling out the insurance claims in such a manner that that portion of the claim in question was paid, and the other portion was never meant to be done and was not even turned in for payment. Hard to explain what I did but never the less the claim was paid and the insurance company said that I should not submit claims in that fashion again. The second was resolved by telling the patient that if the insurance company continued to refuse to pay the calim that if he would take them to small claims court, I would testify as an expert witness on his behalf for nothing and if he lost then he would owe me nothing. He subsequently gave the company 10 days to pay the claim or he would take them to court. They paid the claim. They were so long ago that I can't even remember the insurance companies. Now fo the government sponsered insurance that I agreed to participate in.

During the Bush 1 presidency when the US went to war with Iraq to free Kuwait, I decided to sign up as a provider with United Concordia in order to treat the families of our soldiers. The reimbursement was quite low and barely covered my cost. I had been in the Navy reserve from 1961-1967 and had seen and had been the beneficiary of Lyndon Johnson's policy of drafting kids out of high school and sending them to Vietnam when I who had years befor the war along with those during the war were exempted from serving on the battlefront. I am sure I could have volunteered for active duty but did not. This haunts me to this day. Inany event I felt that maybe this would in some measure make up for this. In three years, I had 3 claims that were never resolved. Two of them resulted in the patients having to pay the bill. The other one resulted in me having to mark of the bill as no payment at all. The standard response from the insurance company was "you have to understand that this is government insurance". Totally dissatisfied by the treatment of both my patients and me by this insurance, I sent them a letter terminating my participation. Some of the patients stayed with me and and paid the increased costs. Some probably sought treatment elsewhere but probably had to drive quite a distance to find a provider who would accept their insurance.
THis is the extent of the significant difficulties that I had with dental insurance- 2 with employer based insurance in 35 years and 3 with military or government insurance in 3 years.

On a personal note I would suggest that you not hide behind the statement that you only responded to posts by M&K Retrievers (I think this is his handle) rudely when he had ridiculed you. I remind you that the very first post which had nothing to do with you (I don't even remenber the topic of the post and I had not even seen one of your posts and knew nothing of you) brought a response form you that "ALL THE DENTISTS YOU KNEW PLAYED GOLF ALL THE TIME AND NEVER WORKED", implying they were paid greatly for doing little work. I responded that "if dentistry was so easy and so lucritive they why weren't you a dentist"?
It is easy to criticize other people's profession and their rewards of their success and I will say again that 5% of the people I worked with caused 95% of the problems and 95% of the people caused 5% of the problems. If I were you I would not take a poll on which group you fall in.

You talk about care of children. I like MOST other dentists have provided care freely for those who we have decided are disadvantaged. This was done along with the grateful help of other concerned citizens who felt a need to make their community a better place to live. Most of these people don't talk about their service nor do they bitch about the lack of it. They just pitch in with their time to help those who can't help themselves. In my experience, they aren't the ones who bitch, they are the ones who donate their time and effort and they don't use as an excuse that the government is responsible. Conservative or liberal has nothing to do with it. There are two types- those that are too lazy to pitch in and help and expect the government to do it and those who are willing to pitch in and help those who CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES. Each of us has to decide which group they fall.

[depittydawg]

You say you have asked for a healthcare professional's opinion of insurance companies and have not gotten any. Well, here is mine. In 35 years of practice, I had EXACTLY 2 disagreements with insurance companies (excluding government policies and I will get to them later), that were not easily resolved. One was handled by me by filling out the insurance claims in such a manner that that portion of the claim in question was paid, and the other portion was never meant to be done and was not even turned in for payment. Hard to explain what I did but never the less the claim was paid and the insurance company said that I should not submit claims in that fashion again. The second was resolved by telling the patient that if the insurance company continued to refuse to pay the calim that if he would take them to small claims court, I would testify as an expert witness on his behalf for nothing and if he lost then he would owe me nothing. He subsequently gave the company 10 days to pay the claim or he would take them to court. They paid the claim. They were so long ago that I can't even remember the insurance companies. Now fo the government sponsered insurance that I agreed to participate in.

During the Bush 1 presidency when the US went to war with Iraq to free Kuwait, I decided to sign up as a provider with United Concordia in order to treat the families of our soldiers. The reimbursement was quite low and barely covered my cost. I had been in the Navy reserve from 1961-1967 and had seen and had been the beneficiary of Lyndon Johnson's policy of drafting kids out of high school and sending them to Vietnam when I who had years befor the war along with those during the war were exempted from serving on the battlefront. I am sure I could have volunteered for active duty but did not. This haunts me to this day. Inany event I felt that maybe this would in some measure make up for this. In three years, I had 3 claims that were never resolved. Two of them resulted in the patients having to pay the bill. The other one resulted in me having to mark of the bill as no payment at all. The standard response from the insurance company was "you have to understand that this is government insurance". Totally dissatisfied by the treatment of both my patients and me by this insurance, I sent them a letter terminating my participation. Some of the patients stayed with me and and paid the increased costs. Some probably sought treatment elsewhere but probably had to drive quite a distance to find a provider who would accept their insurance.
THis is the extent of the significant difficulties that I had with dental insurance- 2 with employer based insurance in 35 years and 3 with military or government insurance in 3 years.

On a personal note I would suggest that you not hide behind the statement that you only responded to posts by M&K Retrievers (I think this is his handle) rudely when he had ridiculed you. I remind you that the very first post which had nothing to do with you (I don't even remenber the topic of the post and I had not even seen one of your posts and knew nothing of you) brought a response form you that "ALL THE DENTISTS YOU KNEW PLAYED GOLF ALL THE TIME AND NEVER WORKED", implying they were paid greatly for doing little work. I responded that "if dentistry was so easy and so lucritive they why weren't you a dentist"?
It is easy to criticize other people's profession and their rewards of their success and I will say again that 5% of the people I worked with caused 95% of the problems and 95% of the people caused 5% of the problems. If I were you I would not take a poll on which group you fall in.

You talk about care of children. I like MOST other dentists have provided care freely for those who we have decided are disadvantaged. This was done along with the grateful help of other concerned citizens who felt a need to make their community a better place to live. Most of these people don't talk about their service nor do they bitch about the lack of it. They just pitch in with their time to help those who can't help themselves. In my experience, they aren't the ones who bitch, they are the ones who donate their time and effort and they don't use as an excuse that the government is responsible. Conservative or liberal has nothing to do with it. There are two types- those that are too lazy to pitch in and help and expect the government to do it and those who are willing to pitch in and help those who CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES. Each of us has to decide which group they fall.

Well here a few comments on what you said here.

1. I've have not heard an outcry from American citizens for reform of Dental Insurance coverage. I have never spoken to my dentist, or others whom I know about it. I personally have never had an issue with an insurance company disqualifying me, or anyone I know, for purchasing Dental Coverage at reasonable rates. Perhaps this model could be used for Medical Insurance, which is what the nation has been debating for about 20 years now.

2. I said I HAVE received several opinions from Doctors and nurses in the healthcare profession. All of those whom I have spoken with have expressed frustration over the dealings and expense they have to incur with insurance companies. They have also stated that a single payer system of some type would be an improvement over what we have today. Granted, I have not done surveys, or polled large numbers of people, but I do believe several physicians organizations were in the front line of pushing the federal government for healthcare reform.

3. I have never written anything concerning Dentists or Doctors playing golf. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. I state here that I will refrain from insulting others on this site. I know I will continue to be assaulted from time to time; but I will make another attempt to ignore it.

[caryalsobrook]

Well here a few comments on what you said here.

1. I've have not heard an outcry from American citizens for reform of Dental Insurance coverage. I have never spoken to my dentist, or others whom I know about it. I personally have never had an issue with an insurance company disqualifying me, or anyone I know, for purchasing Dental Coverage at reasonable rates. Perhaps this model could be used for Medical Insurance, which is what the nation has been debating for about 20 years now.

2. I said I HAVE received several opinions from Doctors and nurses in the healthcare profession. All of those whom I have spoken with have expressed frustration over the dealings and expense they have to incur with insurance companies. They have also stated that a single payer system of some type would be an improvement over what we have today. Granted, I have not done surveys, or polled large numbers of people, but I do believe several physicians organizations were in the front line of pushing the federal government for healthcare reform.

3. I have never written anything concerning Dentists or Doctors playing golf. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. I state here that I will refrain from insulting others on this site. I know I will continue to be assaulted from time to time; but I will make another attempt to ignore it.

I apologize about the golf statement. You are right, it was another person who made the comment in april. Concerning dentistry, it has less government involvement with government than medicine, optometry, chiropracticnursing home, hospital or any other health profession that I know of. It doesn't even come under medicare but is covered my medicaid but with very small participation by dentists. Maybe that is the reason it doesn't have the problems the other fields have- less government involvement.
Like my liberal economics college professor sister who I love dearly, you support socialized healthcare(alias single payor) system. As she didn't realize, there will be no charitable treatment under such a system since the level of care will be determined by bureaucrats. Doctors will be allowed to work only for the government and cannot be paid by a private person. By fee structure, they will be controled where they can live and practice. To understand this fully look at the Canadian system where canadians are forced to come to the US for treatment in order to avoid long waits or denial by bureaucrats of the level of care they seek. If that is too far from you take a look at the system in the state of Mass where doctors are forced to perform medicaid services in order to retain their licenses'. I don't thing even George Romney, the republican Govener at the time they implemented the system will praise that system since costs and wait time have increased greatly.
I wonder if you realize that if the US implements socialized healtcare then the provider no longer works for you, he works for the government. I for my part if I am made to work for the government and not the patient then I think I will care more about meeting gov. goals than the patients and if they don't like it then TS.
Again, not knowing where your live, I am sure that if you contact a dentist or physician they will be glad to refer you to a number of groups who provide charitable treatment to those who are unable to help themselves. Lay services are always need and any time you donate will be greatly appreciated.

[code3retrievers]

Let me spell it out for you. Conservatives, Republicans, whatever you want to call them, BLOCKED all attempts at reforming the system that currently denies about 50 million people healthcare coverage. Not a day goes by on this site that conservatives don't rant and rave about somebody getting a handout that didn't earn it.
It's not a lack of resources. It's not a lack of money. Hell, while United Healthcare was busily trying to deny every office visit my family needed, their CEO retired with like 7 BILLION dollars. How in the world did this guy get so much money? Where did that money come from? Was it providing healthcare? Not... It was because he created an empire of 'professionals' who made a science out of collecting premiums from their customers and then getting out of upholding their end of the contract when it came due.
So let me ask again. What is it about conservatives that makes them so appalled at reaching out a hand to help others in need?
The Republican Party, its representatives, whom you place in their positions, have fought against not only healthcare, but every other system that is designed to help people who can't help themselves. So, what the hell. Are you all so greedy you can't stand the thought of helping someone else? Have you completely lost or forgot the meaning of sacrifice? Take a step back and just look what you guys are advocating. You want to turn the clock back to 1920?
You mention the State run systems that provide services to children and others. Conservatives have fought, and continue to fight these programs at every level. The fact that they exist is not a credit to ANY conservative initiative that I've ever seen. They exist only because Republicans, and conservative LOST those battles.
So one more time. What is it about HELPING people in need that gets the blood of Conservatives boiling? A simple question.

You asked so you get a response. I help out the poor every day in my profession. I also see the abuse as well as those in need. I will spell it out for you. There are programs in place already. There is not a need for a national federal program.
The difference between liberals and conservatives is not that one does not want to give, it is how it is given. Conservatives believe in charities and your type believe in stealing it from the working and giving it to the lazy or irresponsible.
I have had insurance since the age of 21 not because I had a high paying job but because I had priorities. For those that can not afford it there are already programs.
The reason the health care system is so screwed up is because your types have been meddling in it for years. Every time you attempt to fix something you make it worse. Obamacare is just the latest.
I can't wait to see the abuse the system cause in the next few years and your 50 million number is a bunch of B.S. like the rest of your quotes. You become more extreme every day. Can't wait for next month to send your types packing.

[Gerry Clinchy]

dippity doo dah, actually it is doctors and their fraud (do we have any here?)

Actually, the NY Times reported on the largest single Medicare fraud yesterday (I think) ... a bunch of Hungarians (!) who stole identities of both doctors & patients & submitted billings to Medicare from bogus clinics. No services were ever provided to anyone.

They collected $35 million before anybody caught on. They had billed about $100 million. When queries arrived from Medicare (after the bills had been paid), the clinic simply disappeared. It was never more than a post-office box. And the criminals opened up another "clinic" & continued the scam.

I wonder why we never hear of fraud in UK or Canada? Nobody has figured out how to bilk the system? Doesn't seem likely.

[Gerry Clinchy]

Only in the United States ... the Fed is suing Arizona. Florida is suing the Fed. And the latest is that Holder doesn't think that MJ should be legalized for recreational use, so even if the electorate favors legalization, the Fed will continue to enforce Fed laws against MJ. Will the Fed have to sue California, too? Holder's position is that it would be impossible to enforce laws differently in different states.

Not to mention that law enforcement is fighting a battle to substitute GPS for the old-fashioned stakeouts and "tails" of suspected criminals. Holder and Obama are siding with law enforcement on that one.

[depittydawg]

I apologize about the golf statement. You are right, it was another person who made the comment in april. Concerning dentistry, it has less government involvement with government than medicine, optometry, chiropracticnursing home, hospital or any other health profession that I know of. It doesn't even come under medicare but is covered my medicaid but with very small participation by dentists. Maybe that is the reason it doesn't have the problems the other fields have- less government involvement.
Like my liberal economics college professor sister who I love dearly, you support socialized healthcare(alias single payor) system. As she didn't realize, there will be no charitable treatment under such a system since the level of care will be determined by bureaucrats. Doctors will be allowed to work only for the government and cannot be paid by a private person. By fee structure, they will be controled where they can live and practice. To understand this fully look at the Canadian system where canadians are forced to come to the US for treatment in order to avoid long waits or denial by bureaucrats of the level of care they seek. If that is too far from you take a look at the system in the state of Mass where doctors are forced to perform medicaid services in order to retain their licenses'. I don't thing even George Romney, the republican Govener at the time they implemented the system will praise that system since costs and wait time have increased greatly.
I wonder if you realize that if the US implements socialized healtcare then the provider no longer works for you, he works for the government. I for my part if I am made to work for the government and not the patient then I think I will care more about meeting gov. goals than the patients and if they don't like it then TS.
Again, not knowing where your live, I am sure that if you contact a dentist or physician they will be glad to refer you to a number of groups who provide charitable treatment to those who are unable to help themselves. Lay services are always need and any time you donate will be greatly appreciated.

Actually, a single payer system does not have to be a government run system. If all Americans were required to buy into healthcare insurance, and Insurance companies were not allowed to cherry pick their customers and disqualify others, I believe a private system of insurers could work.

[depittydawg]

You asked so you get a response. I help out the poor every day in my profession. I also see the abuse as well as those in need. I will spell it out for you. There are programs in place already. There is not a need for a national federal program.
The difference between liberals and conservatives is not that one does not want to give, it is how it is given. Conservatives believe in charities and your type believe in stealing it from the working and giving it to the lazy or irresponsible.
I have had insurance since the age of 21 not because I had a high paying job but because I had priorities. For those that can not afford it there are already programs.
The reason the health care system is so screwed up is because your types have been meddling in it for years. Every time you attempt to fix something you make it worse. Obamacare is just the latest.
I can't wait to see the abuse the system cause in the next few years and your 50 million number is a bunch of B.S. like the rest of your quotes. You become more extreme every day. Can't wait for next month to send your types packing.

Give some examples of the "meddling" please. Just how did Government "meddling" cause Insurers to disqualify 50 million US citizens from coverage? Please provide the Government actions that led to record profits for healthcare providers while their clients were denied benefits. Please provide ONE example of a system of support for children or poor that was initiated by the GOP.... Ever.
And please explain how the Medicare Expansion into the drug business orchestrated by the conservatives and their failed leader, Mr Bush helped bring down the cost of medicine. Yes, the program with the wisdom to PREVENT Medicare from negotiating prices. Where was the "free market" your kind worships?
And while your at it, could you justify the GOP's never ending efforts to pass subsidies and what amounts to welfare to Giant, wealthy, Corporations while they steadfastly criticize, block, chastise, and humiliate those who advocate Public resources be used to help people.

[luvmylabs23139]

Public resources?
I'd love your definition of this. Are you refering to the money the gov't confiscates from me that I have earned and then gives it to someone who sits on their fat ass? That is theft.

[depittydawg]

Public resources?
I'd love your definition of this. Are you refering to the money the gov't confiscates from me that I have earned and then gives it to someone who sits on their fat ass? That is theft.

In your world view, is their no need for Government? Just curious.