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  1. #31
    Senior Member Nor_Cal_Angler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depittydawg View Post
    In your world view, is their no need for Government? Just curious.
    When it comes to the theft of my money, that I work for....NOPE!!!!

    Taxes, to my city, county and state are fine by me....becasue that is where I draw my resorces from....but on a federal level...other than to provide for the GREATEST MILITARY IN THE WORLD....the people of the other 49 (or 56 if your Mr Obama) states DONT DESERVE ONE NICKLE.....

    but hey I live in COMMIEFORNIA and you live in OREGON so we are BOTH up the creek there...broken states with their eye on everything other than the ball.

    NCA

  2. #32
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depittydawg View Post
    Tell you what, you quit insulting me at every opportunity that comes your way, and I'll do the same. I have never insulted you other than to RESPOND to an insult you've flung my way. Keep doing it, and I'll keep letting you have it back. I have tried to educate you and help you through several threads but all you can do is gripe, moan and make false accusations.
    As far as your profession. You represent an industry that has shut out nearly 50 million Americans from access to healthcare over the last 20 years or so. The insurance industry cannot force people to buy coverage. They offer products which people can purchase if they so desire. You went from 10M kids uninsured to 50M people uninsured. Which is it, DS? Actually it's neither. There are about 17M which cannot either afford coverage og are uninsurable. As I have said before, these people should be taken care but not by the insurance companies but by government programs. And it gets worse every year. Your industry has CEO's retiring with Billions of dollars of ripped off money, while their clients go bankrupt, suffer and even die because guys like you sift through legal mumbu jumbo searching for loopholes to defraud your customers.This is total BS and you have no facts to prove your claim. Your industry saddles America with the HIGHEST cost healthcare system in the world Insurance companies do not determine the cost of health care they determine the cost to reimburse insureds for their health care with one of the lowest outcomes of any industrialized nation.I don't know what you are refering to here but we do have the best health care in the world. The fact that you make a living selling insurance is not dishonest. The fact that you defend the status quo of a corrupt, dishonest, industry that is ripping off consumers speaks volumes for your lack of decency. Where are the law suits, the news reports, etc to support this claim?
    I know a lot of insurance salesman and women who are fighting harder than I am for reform of the Health Insurance industry.I bet you cannot name three agents or you would know that your claims are ridiculous.I know hundreds of agents through my general agency and my association with the Life and Health Underwriters associations that work every day to improve the industry. They live it everyday. They see the customers who have paid all their lives all of a sudden cut off when the need the insurance. They see claims denied and have to deal with the back offices that exist only to deny claims. In 30+ years I have never seen a client terminated for health reasons nor have legitimate claim issues that could not be resolved These people have integrity, are honest, and are hard workers. They see the flaws in the system and are trying to change it. They live everyday within the environment of self serving greed from the far distant offices that try to dictate who is, and who isn't illegible, among their paying customers, to receive care. These decent folks are not sitting back on their haunches trying to defend or perpetuate a failed industry. They see the flaws in their industry and are trying to fight it.
    The fact that you work in the Health Insurance Industry and understand how it works, and persist in defending it, isn't something you should be bragging about. I am very proud of the products and services I have provided my clients over the years. I've never been sued nor have I had a client canceled for anything other than non payment of premium. What company do you work for? I am an independent agent and own my agency. I've dealt with several over the last several years. By far the worst company for its customers is United Health Care. Regency Blue Cross / Blue Shield was a decent company except that they tried to deny just about every claim until pushed back against. I now have Aetna. United HealthCare, Blue Cross and Aetna all enjoy excellent reputations. They have proven to be a decent company. Yes, you are correct. I have insurance through my employer. I have no choice in the matter. Since I'm over 50 years old, no insurance company will take a personal policy out on me or my wife. Neither of us has ever been seriously ill. There are 28 companies in Oregon that offer individual health policies. Many will quote on line. If you and your spouse have no health problems, you can purchase coverage from any one of them. A few years ago I had United Healthcare. Never saw such a callous organisation in my life, in any business. They denied claims, lost paperwork, caused so many roadblocks and obstacles that I tried to drop it from work and buy my own. That's when I found out NO insurance company would sell my family a policy. Like I said above, 28 companies offer individual coverage in Oregon. Have you ever applied and been declined? I doubt it. Why would you since you employer foots the bill? Now isn't that a nice twist. I've never been uninsured in my life. I've paid premiums for 35 years and other than a few office visits and a broken leg never used the insurance. But, no, they can't sell a policy to someone my age. Hell, I might actually get sick. So keep on defending your industry. Sooner or later you won't have an industry to defend. If Obamacare stays unchanged, you are correct. I think the insurance companies will tire of collecting $1 and paying out $1.50
    Well. I have been told by several PM's that you have continued to show your apparent ignorance about the insurance and health care industry. I'm not sure if it's ignorance or hate. My comments, which you either can't or don't want to comprehend are in bold above.
    Last edited by M&K's Retrievers; 10-17-2010 at 01:56 AM.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depittydawg View Post
    I have spoken to several Doctors, nurses and healthcare providers over the last few years. Every one of them is an advocate of single payer healthcare. Why do I doubt this crock? I have several physician clients all of whom despise the thought of a single payer system. Why would an entrepreneur want to work for the government as an employee? Many age 50+ are considering closing their practices rather than deal with Obamacare. They live the life, and bare the expense of dealing with the fraudulent health insurance companies on a daily basis. Not once, has a healthcare professional responded to my inquiries with a positive assessment of the current state of healthcare, as administered by the Insurance Companies of America. Health care is not administered by insurance companies. Health care is administered by the providers. Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?
    The fact that Medicare has issues is just another factor presenting the need for healthcare reform in America. Why did the Republican Party BLOCK all attemps at reform. Why did they NOT offer up any proposals for reform of their own? They better after 11/2.
    I'll say one more thing, then I'm done with this topic. One could hope but you never quit beating a dead horse. We can agree to disagree. When reform is necessary, a public institution, such as Medicare is directly responsive to the political leaders we put in place. They can clean it up. When an private industry, such as healthcare today (their are many other examples), spins out of control it is a much more difficult task to initiate change. Another good argument for a public option.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depittydawg View Post
    Actually, a single payer system does not have to be a government run system. If all Americans were required to buy into healthcare insurance, and Insurance companies were not allowed to cherry pick their customers and disqualify others, I believe a private system of insurers could work.
    Who pays for those that can't afford it?
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by depittydawg View Post
    Give some examples of the "meddling" please. Just how did Government "meddling" cause Insurers to disqualify 50 million US citizens from coverage? Please provide the Government actions that led to record profits for healthcare providers while their clients were denied benefits. Please provide ONE example of a system of support for children or poor that was initiated by the GOP.... Ever.
    And please explain how the Medicare Expansion into the drug business orchestrated by the conservatives and their failed leader, Mr Bush helped bring down the cost of medicine. Yes, the program with the wisdom to PREVENT Medicare from negotiating prices. Where was the "free market" your kind worships?
    And while your at it, could you justify the GOP's never ending efforts to pass subsidies and what amounts to welfare to Giant, wealthy, Corporations while they steadfastly criticize, block, chastise, and humiliate those who advocate Public resources be used to help people.
    ARRRRRGGGGGGH!! The insurance industry did not disqualify or decline to cover 50M US citizens. You misspeak more than Obama and Biteme combined.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depittydawg View Post
    In your world view, is their no need for Government? Just curious.
    The gov't should defend our country. They should not be stealing my money and giving it to someone else. I believe in a limited gov't. I DO NOT suport redistribution of wealth, socialism or anything like that. One is entitled to what one earns. GET THAT? EARNS!
    If someone is going to have 5 kids they damn well better be prepared to pay for them. It is not my job to pay for the fact that they can't keep their urges under control.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  7. #37
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by depittydawg
    Actually, a single payer system does not have to be a government run system. If all Americans were required to buy into healthcare insurance, and Insurance companies were not allowed to cherry pick their customers and disqualify others, I believe a private system of insurers could work.
    I cannot imagine how a single-payer system could run with a private system of insurors. If no one insuror has ALL the insureds, then how could one assure thqat all private insurors would have a random selection of high & low risk insureds

    Take Company A and Company B ... Since neither can deny insurance to anyone, A may be unlucky enough to end up with an overabundance of high-risk insureds & may have to offer higher premium costs. Company B, OTOH, might end up with many low-risk insureds and offer lower rates. Company A's insureds would quickly leave A and buy coverage from B for the lower rates. Once B's client-mix changed, their rates would increase to offset the higher cost client-mix. Meanwhile, A's rates might decrease until they were approximating those of B.

    So the consumers would bounce back and forth between A and B ... and the insurors would always be a bit "behind" in raising their rates to account for the client-mix change.

    Either you have a single-payer system or you don't so that the risk is truly evenly spread over one entire system.

    Make no mistake, however, if you want to insure everyone the young & healthy are going to have to pay more than they do now to offset those who have health problems & cannot now afford insurance. SOMEbody has to pay for it ...

    Right now the insured (and their insurors) pay for the uninsured by paying higher prices to doctors and hospitals so that they can treat the uninsured who cannot pay for the services they are rendered.

    And let's not forget that services are also provided for 12 million illegal residents. Doctors and hospitals will continue to treat those patients with no compensation ... so who will pay for those services?

    Illegal residents will not be able to receive subsidies for health care under O-care, so how do we handle that problem? We already know that the Fed can't figure out how to deport them now. Since the illegal population is so large, how could the Congress even dream of a health care bill that didn't first address immigration reform simultaneously, when maybe more than 1/3 of the uninsured are illegal residents?

    I'll refer again to the Florida hospital that provided milliions of dollars of intensive care treatment to illegal residents & could get no help from the govt in returning the patients to their home countries. Not to mention that the home countries didn't want these sick people back either!

    Another hospital in NYC had the same issue with their charitable dialysis unit ... and it finally closed and still sent some of its dialysis patients temporarily, at least, to some other hospitals. Patients involved averred that if returned to their home countries, it would be a death sentence. Their home countries would not be able to provide them with care needed to survive ... at least one of those countries was Mexico, as an example.

    While Mexico may have a form of govt health care (that is attracting seniors from the US), it doesn't work well for people who have zero money ... like their own citizens.

    For all the maligning our health care system gets from everyone, it seems that the US health care providers are among the most caring people in the whole world. Many, many doctors, nurses and hospitals provide charitable care to those who need it desperately ... even when they can't pay for it.

    And, yes, some of that cost is paid by other patients who have coverage or means to pay for care ... so we all share a part of that with the health providers. And isn't that really true of any "business" ... the price of a product includes overhead which includes accounting for those customers who don't pay their bills.

    When they constructed this enormous bill, did no one try to analyze the actual problem of the uninsured ... even at 30 million that is 10% of the total population (and substract another 10 million who are illegal residents). It would have simply been easier (and saved a whole lot of time) to assess 1/4% tax to set up a special "pool" for those uninsured for low-cost insurance ... like auto insurance high-risk pools.

    And a bill that made no provision for tort reform? Incredible! And now there is under discussion a new income tax break for personal injury attorneys that will make it MORE lucrative for them to pursue frivolous suits. Having been involved in a frivolous lawsuit, I can say firsthand, you have NO idea what an attorney can get away with & profit from as well.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  8. #38
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    its all the insurance companies fault.

    doctors are never involved in medicare fraud....

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