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Thread: the Right to Vote

  1. #1
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Default the Right to Vote

    Is this a special privilege for US citizens?

    Or should anyone be able to vote??


    In AZ, the voters say prove you are a citizen, but an activist progressive judge says no!!

    http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/pueb...cc4c002e0.html


    "The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has overturned Arizona’s requirement that people show proof of citizenship to register to vote.

    The split decision by a three-judge panel determined that the requirement to show proof of citizenship — passed by voters in 2004 — is not consistent with the National Voter Registration Act.

    Associate Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, temporarily sitting by designation, and Circuit Judge Sandra Ikuta, with chief judge Alex Kozinski dissenting, said Prop. 200 creates an additional hurdle, while the national act is intended to reduce “state-imposed obstacles” to registration.

    The majority noted that Congress was well aware of the problem of voter fraud when it passed the voter act, and built in sufficient protections, including applying perjury penalties to applicants who lie about their eligibilty.

    The court determined Arizona’s polling place photo identification requirement, however, is a minimal burden and does not violate the Equal Protection Clause in the 14th Amendment.

    Attorney General Terry Goddard’s office is still reviewing the decision and was unavailable for comment.

    Secretary of State Ken Bennett said he does not anticipate that the ruling will make any difference in voting next week, since it wasn’t in place when registration closed Oct. 4.

    Bennett said the state plans to appeal the ruling, adding he disagrees the documentation sets up a barrier for registration. “I think it’s an outrage and a slap in the face of Arizonans who are concerned about the integrity of elections,” he said."


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  2. #2
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Is this a special privilege for US citizens?

    Or should anyone be able to vote??


    In AZ, the voters say prove you are a citizen, but an activist progressive judge says no!!

    http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/pueb...cc4c002e0.html


    "The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has overturned Arizona’s requirement that people show proof of citizenship to register to vote.

    The split decision by a three-judge panel determined that the requirement to show proof of citizenship — passed by voters in 2004 — is not consistent with the National Voter Registration Act.

    Associate Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, temporarily sitting by designation, and Circuit Judge Sandra Ikuta, with chief judge Alex Kozinski dissenting, said Prop. 200 creates an additional hurdle, while the national act is intended to reduce “state-imposed obstacles” to registration.

    The majority noted that Congress was well aware of the problem of voter fraud when it passed the voter act, and built in sufficient protections, including applying perjury penalties to applicants who lie about their eligibilty.

    The court determined Arizona’s polling place photo identification requirement, however, is a minimal burden and does not violate the Equal Protection Clause in the 14th Amendment.

    Attorney General Terry Goddard’s office is still reviewing the decision and was unavailable for comment.

    Secretary of State Ken Bennett said he does not anticipate that the ruling will make any difference in voting next week, since it wasn’t in place when registration closed Oct. 4.

    Bennett said the state plans to appeal the ruling, adding he disagrees the documentation sets up a barrier for registration. “I think it’s an outrage and a slap in the face of Arizonans who are concerned about the integrity of elections,” he said."


    RK
    The issue actually has nothing to do with the right to vote per se, but with the administrative obstacles that may be used to prevent someone from voting.

    Under PA law, a voter may be required to provide proof of identity and residency. A photo ID (e.g. drivers license) can theoretically be used to prove identity, and failing such proof, the voter is permitted to complete a provisional ballot that will be accepted following administrative review. To prove residency, the user may provide things like utility bills, voter registration cards, etc.

    The reality is that in over 40 years of voting, I have never been asked to identify myself. However, if I were asked to provide proof of citizenship, my only options would be my passport or my birth certificate, since citizenship is not required to obtain a drivers license. I happen to have both, but most people have neither.

    If such a requirement were implemented and enforced rigorously and uniformly across all voters -- whether known to precinct workers or not -- I suspect that the number of people voting would be cut by more than 50%. This would not happen because non-citizens were being excluded, but because valid citizen voters were being excluded bureaucratically. Of course, the reality is that the requirement would not be enforced rigorously and uniformly; it would be enforced when poll watchers chose to use it to exclude people they did not want to vote. That is exactly the reason why courts have consistently held such activities to be a violation of voter rights since passage of the voter rights.

    A more interesting situation is brewing in Maine, where Portland is considering whether or not to allow non-citizens to vote in local elections. Apparently, non-citizen voting has a long history in the US and is probably legal in Maine.

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    OK, Yardley...Simple solution. You must be a citizen to obtain a driver's license. That'll cut down on the 4 hr wait at the DMV also! It's a win win situation.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The issue actually has nothing to do with the right to vote per se, but with the administrative obstacles that may be used to prevent someone from voting.

    Under PA law, a voter may be required to provide proof of identity and residency. A photo ID (e.g. drivers license) can theoretically be used to prove identity, and failing such proof, the voter is permitted to complete a provisional ballot that will be accepted following administrative review. To prove residency, the user may provide things like utility bills, voter registration cards, etc.

    The reality is that in over 40 years of voting, I have never been asked to identify myself. However, if I were asked to provide proof of citizenship, my only options would be my passport or my birth certificate, since citizenship is not required to obtain a drivers license. I happen to have both, but most people have neither.

    If such a requirement were implemented and enforced rigorously and uniformly across all voters -- whether known to precinct workers or not -- I suspect that the number of people voting would be cut by more than 50%. This would not happen because non-citizens were being excluded, but because valid citizen voters were being excluded bureaucratically. Of course, the reality is that the requirement would not be enforced rigorously and uniformly; it would be enforced when poll watchers chose to use it to exclude people they did not want to vote. That is exactly the reason why courts have consistently held such activities to be a violation of voter rights since passage of the voter rights.

    A more interesting situation is brewing in Maine, where Portland is considering whether or not to allow non-citizens to vote in local elections. Apparently, non-citizen voting has a long history in the US and is probably legal in Maine.
    What is it about the left that says "the glass is always half empty"

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The issue actually has nothing to do with the right to vote per se, but with the administrative obstacles that may be used to prevent someone from voting.

    Under PA law, a voter may be required to provide proof of identity and residency. A photo ID (e.g. drivers license) can theoretically be used to prove identity, and failing such proof, the voter is permitted to complete a provisional ballot that will be accepted following administrative review. To prove residency, the user may provide things like utility bills, voter registration cards, etc.

    The reality is that in over 40 years of voting, I have never been asked to identify myself. However, if I were asked to provide proof of citizenship, my only options would be my passport or my birth certificate, since citizenship is not required to obtain a drivers license. I happen to have both, but most people have neither.

    If such a requirement were implemented and enforced rigorously and uniformly across all voters -- whether known to precinct workers or not -- I suspect that the number of people voting would be cut by more than 50%. This would not happen because non-citizens were being excluded, but because valid citizen voters were being excluded bureaucratically. Of course, the reality is that the requirement would not be enforced rigorously and uniformly; it would be enforced when poll watchers chose to use it to exclude people they did not want to vote. That is exactly the reason why courts have consistently held such activities to be a violation of voter rights since passage of the voter rights.

    A more interesting situation is brewing in Maine, where Portland is considering whether or not to allow non-citizens to vote in local elections. Apparently, non-citizen voting has a long history in the US and is probably legal in Maine.
    If you can't be bothered to even show photo ID how the hell could you have done due diligence in who you are voting for? It takes all of 10 minutes in my town to get a birth certificate so way shorter than getting a drivers license.

    Allowing non-citizens to vote can be legal how?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Covey View Post
    If you can't be bothered to even show photo ID how the hell could you have done due diligence in who you are voting for? It takes all of 10 minutes in my town to get a birth certificate so way shorter than getting a drivers license.

    Allowing non-citizens to vote can be legal how?
    I live about 1000 miles from the city where I was born. Last time I needed to get a birth certificate so I could get a passport, I had about a 4 week wait.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    OK, Yardley...Simple solution. You must be a citizen to obtain a driver's license. That'll cut down on the 4 hr wait at the DMV also! It's a win win situation.
    YOu don't even have to do that. As of a few years ago in NC you must prove that you are a legal resident of both the US and the state of NC to obtain a NC driver's license. NC driver's licenses state whether you are or are not a citizen. It's in the restriction box. If it says I-9 in the box it means you are here legally but are not a citizen. Driver's licenses also expire for non citizens on dates that corespond to visa staus rather than DOB.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I live about 1000 miles from the city where I was born. Last time I needed to get a birth certificate so I could get a passport, I had about a 4 week wait.
    You have more than a 4 week advanced notice of upcoming elections...

    I would think that US citizens that are concerned with the well being and future of our country and the integrity of our elections wouldn't mind a small inconvenience to ensure that only legal residents are allowed to vote. Hmm. That's what I get for thinking, I guess.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I live about 1000 miles from the city where I was born. Last time I needed to get a birth certificate so I could get a passport, I had about a 4 week wait.
    And now you have a birth certificate and passport. Do elections spring up on us in two weeks? I'm fairly certain we know the exact day of the elections every single year. Do it once don't lose it...is it that big of a deal?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Covey View Post
    And now you have a birth certificate and passport. Do elections spring up on us in two weeks? I'm fairly certain we know the exact day of the elections every single year. Do it once don't lose it...is it that big of a deal?
    This year we have to dip our forefinger in a bottle of ink to show we voted.

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