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Thread: Super Sized Pensions

  1. #31
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Marv, the people who work for government are not Little Sisters of the Poor. Many of them have highly specialized skills that they should be properly compensated for. Some of those skills are only applicable in government.

    My college education was paid for by myself, every dime of it, by working in sculleries and auto plants on the line. I'll make no apologies for that.

    I never sought a local presidency in the unions. I did speak out forcefully from time to time on issues and that got me nominated but I did not actively seek those positions. Once in those position I endeavored to represent my members to the best of my ability--that is what I was elected to do. I did so so that we could keep our experienced employees --nobody wants to work with a bunch of newbies that turn over in a year or less.

    You imply that since it was government that we did not keep our eye on the bottom line. The goal is to make sure our members are fairly compensated without breaking the budget. When I went into negotiate I know pretty much what we have to work with and I didn't plan to piss off taxpayers by playing "bandit".

    Marv, you said,"If the problem is/was so bad, why didn't you fix it??"

    It ain't exactly like fixing an airplane. People problems are a little bit like shooting coyotes. You can try to extirpate them all on one day, but sure as the sun rises, there will be more tomorrow. If you ignore them, the problem only gets worse. Victory in human services is one family at a time. I am proud to say, very few of the families I worked with were ever seen in the system again. The taxpayer got what they paid for.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 11-30-2010 at 06:39 AM.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Marv, the people who work for government are not Little Sisters of the Poor. Many of them have highly specialized skills that they should be properly compensated for. Some of those skills are only applicable in government.

    My college education was paid for by myself, every dime of it, by working in sculleries and auto plants on the line. I'll make no apologies for that.

    I never sought a local presidency in the unions. I did speak out forcefully from time to time on issues and that got me nominated but I did not actively seek those positions. Once in those position I endeavored to represent my members to the best of my ability--that is what I was elected to do. I did so so that we could keep our experienced employees --nobody wants to work with a bunch of newbies that turn over in a year or less.

    You imply that since it was government that we did not keep our eye on the bottom line. The goal is to make sure our members are fairly compensated without breaking the budget. When I went into negotiate I know pretty much what we have to work with and I didn't plan to piss off taxpayers by playing "bandit".

    Marv, you said,"If the problem is/was so bad, why didn't you fix it??"

    It ain't exactly like fixing an airplane. People problems are a little bit like shooting coyotes. You can try to extirpate them all on one day, but sure as the sun rises, there will be more tomorrow. If you ignore them, the problem only gets worse. Victory in human services is one family at a time. I am proud to say, very few of the families I worked with were ever seen in the system again. The taxpayer go what they paid for.
    I get annoyed with people who think that there is no such thing as a important work in government. Or that people who work in government are somehow not pulling their share or don't deserve their wages. Many critical jobs are performed everyday by people on government payroll.

    And no, they don't deserve any special honors or recognition for it either. The idea that they are "serving" their country any more than any of the rest of us is a farce. They are just people doing their jobs. Some are good at it. Some aren't. No different than private industry. They are compensated by and large about the same as anyone doing similar work in the private sector. In many cases in the past they have taken smaller pay increases to increase benefit packages. People who want to whine and complain because someone else has a better job, better pay, or better benefits are the true sluggards.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by depittydawg View Post
    I get annoyed with people who think that there is no such thing as a important work in government. Or that people who work in government are somehow not pulling their share or don't deserve their wages. Many critical jobs are performed everyday by people on government payroll.

    And no, they don't deserve any special honors or recognition for it either. The idea that they are "serving" their country any more than any of the rest of us is a farce. They are just people doing their jobs. Some are good at it. Some aren't. No different than private industry. They are compensated by and large about the same as anyone doing similar work in the private sector. In many cases in the past they have taken smaller pay increases to increase benefit packages. People who want to whine and complain because someone else has a better job, better pay, or better benefits are the true sluggards.
    then please explain/spin this:

    "Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data finds.
    Accountants, nurses, chemists, surveyors, cooks, clerks and janitors are among the wide range of jobs that get paid more on average in the federal government than in the private sector.

    Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available."

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...eral-pay_N.htm

  4. #34
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post
    then please explain/spin this:

    "Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data finds.
    Accountants, nurses, chemists, surveyors, cooks, clerks and janitors are among the wide range of jobs that get paid more on average in the federal government than in the private sector.

    Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available."

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...eral-pay_N.htm
    Gerry, federal is federal, state is state, local is local. The same does not apply across the board.

    In the situation I was faced with, a college educated employee with four years experience and with two dependents, earned so little that they were eligible for subsidized housing. I wasn't interested in getting limousines for anybody, but enough of a wage where there was some dignity for working. Our surveys indicated, that even with our last settlement, where jobs were comparable, our workers were at 80% of the prevailing wage in private industry.

    But it isn't a fair world. You can find all kinds of inequities in compensation without much effort. How about those execs that pay themselves 400x of their employees average pay, while they drive their company under or ship American jobs overseas?
    Last edited by zeus3925; 11-30-2010 at 09:01 AM.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post
    then please explain/spin this:

    "Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data finds.
    Accountants, nurses, chemists, surveyors, cooks, clerks and janitors are among the wide range of jobs that get paid more on average in the federal government than in the private sector.

    Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available."

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...eral-pay_N.htm


    For that study to mean anything to me, I'd have to see salary broken down by education level and experience as well as by geographic location. Stating averages doesn't mean squat.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    I'm sick for the rhetoric that is currently out there bashing public employees. We need these employees and most do not earn what they are worth. School teacher, policemen and firemen, couldn't pay their rent if it was not for the unions that have fault for them to get them a livable wage.

    If some seem to have it better than you think they deserve, just wait until these republicans get through with things, they will be sucking hind tit again.

    See most people don't like seeing others good fortune. What we should be is happy that some of our brethern have received a break. Instead of ragging on the fact that they have stuck together and negotiated a good deal for themselves and family.

    My dad was a union boss for the IBEW. He always said that the lineman were the easiest to organize, with wiremen a little harder and instrument men were a pain in the ass. What he was saying is the smarter someone thinks they are the harder it is to get them to agree and work together. I've kept that in mind most of my life and it has proven correct.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    For that study to mean anything to me, I'd have to see salary broken down by education level and experience as well as by geographic location. Stating averages doesn't mean squat.
    thats the spin i expected, and you could have a point. but you have to admit that the ongoing joke for ever is that the government is inept. you know, the old "i am from the government and i am here to help you" cliche. so common sense from that would suggest that if govt. is so inept then the experience/education levels are more likey lower, not higher - or they just perform at a lower level because they can. whatever - anyway, like i said, you could have a point, but my guess is that the education/exp levels are at best a wash.

    my question is where are all these jobs that pay so well? all i know is state and EPA jobs in my field pay well below the private sector. there is very little respect for environmental regulators in general....

  8. #38
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post


    My dad was a union boss for the IBEW. He always said that the lineman were the easiest to organize, with wiremen a little harder and instrument men were a pain in the ass. What he was saying is the smarter someone thinks they are the harder it is to get them to agree and work together. I've kept that in mind most of my life and it has proven correct.

    There you go. Keep the ignorant in lock step. It's so much easier to deal with the stupid than those that can think for themselves. That has a known title: "The dumbing down of America." We see it in so many venues today, but the most obvious is in our schools and colleges.

    Why do you think the unions and Democrats are in favor of allowing the illegal immigration to overrun this nation? More ignorant voters with their handsout to their providers. Talk about buying votes.

    Thanks for telling it like it is, Sambo. It's always encouraging to get the truth from such a sage as the Oracle of IHOP.

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  9. #39
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    I'm sick for the rhetoric that is currently out there bashing public employees. We need these employees and most do not earn what they are worth. School teacher, policemen and firemen, couldn't pay their rent if it was not for the unions that have fault for them to get them a livable wage.

    If some seem to have it better than you think they deserve, just wait until these republicans get through with things, they will be sucking hind tit again.

    See most people don't like seeing others good fortune. What we should be is happy that some of our brethern have received a break. Instead of ragging on the fact that they have stuck together and negotiated a good deal for themselves and family.

    My dad was a union boss for the IBEW. He always said that the lineman were the easiest to organize, with wiremen a little harder and instrument men were a pain in the ass. What he was saying is the smarter someone thinks they are the harder it is to get them to agree and work together. I've kept that in mind most of my life and it has proven correct.
    Why are Federal jobs unionized??
    Poor benefits?
    Poor working conditions??

    VOTING BLOCK???


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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    My dad was a union boss for the IBEW. He always said that the lineman were the easiest to organize, with wiremen a little harder and instrument men were a pain in the ass. What he was saying is the smarter someone thinks they are the harder it is to get them to agree and work together. I've kept that in mind most of my life and it has proven correct.
    And Republicans always act in sync, get in line, and vote as a bloc. What does that tell you?

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