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Thread: the bad news just keeps on coming for The Apologist

  1. #41
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post
    this is war. the rules are different. does the geneva convention require we prove anything? we hold them indefinitely in a clean prison where they get sunshine and fresh air, they take our men that they capture and commit unspeakable acts.

    [QUOTEi can just see some of you lefties in battle. in the heat of a firefight if you see an enemy combatant carrying an ak-47 weapon across a field or a courtyard you wont shoot him because he isnt pointing his weapon directly at you, so you just wait and look until you see someone actually aiming at you before you fire - and you take a picture first so you can prove it justifiable homicide later in civilian court back home where the jury that has no clue about combat is going to judge your actions. and the rpg that just buzzed over your head and killed a fellow soldier behind you?? "well, i think it came from that bunker over there behind the guys with the guns, but i cant prove it, so i better not return fire just yet" :
    Where do you get this stuff from? I am confident this scenario plays out everyday in Afghanistan

    :
    now, finally three of your units better men storm the bunker where they find three enemy combatants with a cache of 30 rpgs. they are now captives, so the good guys march them out at gunpoint back to the base while under fire - but because they are overloaded with their own gear they cant carry out the 30 rpgs. ooops! no evidence! they have to be released or a jury of people that think like you would acquit them of all charges. :
    Of course those three brave men would be conservatives.....................


    :
    this is why liberalism is a mental disorder.:
    Didn't know you were a psychiatrist................

    [/QUOTE]

    Most POW's in wars are released. Take for instance the first Iraq war. We took thousands of POW's into custody and when the war was over they were released. This is way different . If you don't see it, there is now way I can show you.

  2. #42
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post
    this is war. the rules are different. does the geneva convention require we prove anything? we hold them indefinitely in a clean prison where they get sunshine and fresh air, they take our men that they capture and commit unspeakable acts.

    i can just see some of you lefties in battle. in the heat of a firefight if you see an enemy combatant carrying an ak-47 weapon across a field or a courtyard you wont shoot him because he isnt pointing his weapon directly at you, so you just wait and look until you see someone actually aiming at you before you fire - and you take a picture first so you can prove it justifiable homicide later in civilian court back home where the jury that has no clue about combat is going to judge your actions. and the rpg that just buzzed over your head and killed a fellow soldier behind you?? "well, i think it came from that bunker over there behind the guys with the guns, but i cant prove it, so i better not return fire just yet"

    now, finally three of your units better men storm the bunker where they find three enemy combatants with a cache of 30 rpgs. they are now captives, so the good guys march them out at gunpoint back to the base while under fire - but because they are overloaded with their own gear they cant carry out the 30 rpgs. ooops! no evidence! they have to be released or a jury of people that think like you would acquit them of all charges.

    this is why liberalism is a mental disorder.

    In contrast to the pathology of extreme conservatism.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  3. #43
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    I think reading this thread has caused me to lose more brain cells than I can afford.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  4. #44
    Senior Member BrianW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    Most POW's in wars are released. Take for instance the first Iraq war. We took thousands of POW's into custody and when the war was over they were released. This is way different . If you don't see it, there is no way I can show you.
    I agree with you, this IS way different.
    This is the pitfall when a "war" is declared on an idea or concept, instead of an entity or state. In the past, the representatives sign the armistice, terms of surrender, etc and the combatants go home. But this is a new frontier and the application of old concepts don't quite fit anymore. This guy is not an Iraqi or Afghani that fit into the terms of war as we've known it. Ghailani, a native of Tanzania, is part of a organization that crosses borders & cultures, wears no uniform & as a cleric on top of that, owes no allegiance except to being "an instrument of Allah". He's a square peg being pounded into the round hole.

    As you point out, "when the war was over"... When the Iraqis were released, hostilities between the countries, per se, were over. But have you heard the jihadists declare an end to hostilities? I certainly haven't. On the contrary, there have been many statements that they will never be over as long as the Great Satan exists.

    Despite what our leaders say about the "strong messages" & "serious convictions" , our enemies will still hold us in contempt. And if the detainees are released , it will demonstrate weakness and strengthen their resolve.
    The topper, imo, is that if acquitted and still held, our due process of law, and by extension the Constitution, becomes moot. And that's where we really lose the war.
    "It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
    Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpholehunter View Post
    First, I am not a yahoo, maybe a google, but not a yahoo. Second, this judge doesn't know his a$$ from yours, because it wouldn't have haunted a military trial at all, and the finality would have been death by firing squad or hanging.

    As far as tainting the process, you are missing the big picture here Roger Rabbit, HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN TRIED IN A UNITED STATES CIVILIAN COURT TO BEGIN WITH. The crimes he committed where not committed in the US, but africa and the middle east, so he should have been tried there. And he probably would have got the same thing your buddy Sadam got, which if I remember right was his neck stretched.
    To reply, Ghailani was tried in the UNITED STATES (state of New York where 3,000 people died in the world trade center) The jury was made up of UNITED STATE CITIZENS probably half of which were REPUBLICIANS. Had he been tried in the middle east or africa, he would probably be walking the streets now. Now, if an AMERICAN jury found him not guilty on a number of charges because some administration decided that waterboarding was a good way to get a confession than that administration should admit it f___ed up.

    This courtroom drawing shows Tanzanian Ahmed Ghailani (C) in court with his defense attorneys Peter Quijano (L) and Michael Bachrach (R) on November 17, 2010 in New York. Ghailiani faces a minimum sentence of 20 years after his November 17, 2010 conspiracy conviction in the first civilian trial of a former Guantanamo Bay inmate, prosecutors said. Ghailani, 36, was found not guilty on a slew of charges including conspiracy to plot with Al-Qaeda to kill US citizens in the attacks against the Tanzania and Kenya embassies, in which 224 people died. The jury, deliberating on the fifth day after a four-week trial, found him guilty only of conspiracy to destroy US property. But a spokeswoman for the prosecutors said he faces a mandatory minimum sentence of 20 years for this conviction and could get life. (Shirley Shepard - Afp/getty Images)

    - AP)

    (Elizabeth Williams - AP)

  6. #46
    Senior Member Clay Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    To reply, Ghailani was tried in the UNITED STATES (state of New York where 3,000 people died in the world trade center) The jury was made up of UNITED STATE CITIZENS probably half of which were REPUBLICIANS. Had he been tried in the middle east or africa, he would probably be walking the streets now. Now, if an AMERICAN jury found him not guilty on a number of charges because some administration decided that waterboarding was a good way to get a confession than that administration should admit it f___ed up.

    This courtroom drawing shows Tanzanian Ahmed Ghailani (C) in court with his defense attorneys Peter Quijano (L) and Michael Bachrach (R) on November 17, 2010 in New York. Ghailiani faces a minimum sentence of 20 years after his November 17, 2010 conspiracy conviction in the first civilian trial of a former Guantanamo Bay inmate, prosecutors said. Ghailani, 36, was found not guilty on a slew of charges including conspiracy to plot with Al-Qaeda to kill US citizens in the attacks against the Tanzania and Kenya embassies, in which 224 people died. The jury, deliberating on the fifth day after a four-week trial, found him guilty only of conspiracy to destroy US property. But a spokeswoman for the prosecutors said he faces a mandatory minimum sentence of 20 years for this conviction and could get life. (Shirley Shepard - Afp/getty Images)

    - AP)

    (Elizabeth Williams - AP)


    First, why in the world would you think that over half the jurors were republicans in New York? Where did you get that number, same place you get most of your dribble, from your fifth point of contact I'm sure.

    Second, we have already established that since we didn't capture them, put them in the ritz motel and give them warm sponge baths, all the info we obtained from them can't be entered into evidence, so that's why he was only convicted on the one charge.

    Third, if he had been tried in Africa, were he killed 284 people, they probably would have made him Lion food within about 30 minutes.

    And lastly, as for the waterboarding goes, I bet if the truth were ever told, we get more good intel from that than we do bad intel. Sometimes it's not who your torturing you care about, it's about who's watching him get tortured.
    RIP SGT. David Blake Williams KIA 22 Mar 2008 Iraq


    Every day should be Veteran's day.


    "They say War is Hell, but I have to disagree. War is easy. It's the living afterwards thats hell." Author Unknown

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpholehunter View Post
    First, why in the world would you think that over half the jurors were republicans in New York? Where did you get that number, same place you get most of your dribble, from your fifth point of contact I'm sure.

    Probably the same place that Gibson got the idea that the only people who have fought for this country (at least well anyhow) were conservatives. What a freak'in arse hat.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpholehunter View Post


    Third, if he had been tried in Africa, were he killed 284 people, they probably would have made him Lion food within about 30 minutes.
    This is America. We do things a little differently than Africa, or Asia. It is what makes this country great. And we like it that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post

    and i know exactly who in this forum i would trust in the foxhole next to me or even sharing one.

    and ialso know exactly which ones i would NOT trust.

    no names - just sayin'......
    Well if I was in a foxhole, or any other critical situation, I would like clear headed good decision makers around me. Beyond that, they can think anything they want.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Clay Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depittydawg View Post
    This is America. We do things a little differently than Africa, or Asia. It is what makes this country great. And we like it that way.
    I know this is America, probably better than you. And I know this country is great, but it was much greater back in the day when right was right, wrong was wrong and political correctness was never heard of.

    And I don't need a geography lesson from the you.
    RIP SGT. David Blake Williams KIA 22 Mar 2008 Iraq


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    "They say War is Hell, but I have to disagree. War is easy. It's the living afterwards thats hell." Author Unknown

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