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Thread: GM IPO - Great Success!!!

  1. #31
    Senior Member dback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    If you own any mutual funds, you better look into that. Might need to start dumping them.
    Only the college funds I've bought each of my Grandkids....don't have much control over them.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    First, I have never supported two protracted wars and said so on RTF back in 04. Secure the WMD's and get the hell out. Ditto A'stan. Haven't found Bin Laudin, then get the out.

    GM should have been allowed to run its natural course. Overpaid workers and bad product is what got them in trouble. A new company would have risen from the ashes. The bailout was payback for the UAW. With the UAW incharge, GM will never turn a profit! And, what about the families that work at Ford having to compete against the government?

    It is still a big "if" paying back tax payers.
    Yes a new company would have arisen...but it would not have been american. Last I looked, these UAW guys don't have it so good. The UAW has done no wrong except try to assure the jobs of its members. Last I looked that was their role and why these guys pay them dues. GM management agreed to all everything the union workers got and these workers paided into vebas and pension funds and the fact that the company borrowed against them does not mean that there was unpaid obligation. And because of the union, they didn't get screwed as bad as they would have had there not been union representation.

    Don't say the unions ran jobs out of america, because the jobs went to mexico because they would do the work for beans and rice and mexico lost them to china because they will work for only rice.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post

    Don't say the unions ran jobs out of america, because the jobs went to mexico because they would do the work for beans and rice and mexico lost them to china because they will work for only rice.

    I will NEVER forget a meeting I attended to report on the progress I was making on getting product transferred from a US manufacturing plant down to Guadalajara Mexico. The European CEO of this major global company was laughing about the NAFTA debate that was raging in America at the time. He said, your politicians are either liars or they are stupid when they tell your people that wages will rise here and these people will become your customers.

    "For all practical purposes the supply of cheap labor in this world is INFINITE. If wages rise here, our manufacturing will go elsewhere."
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  4. #34
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    After the IPO, the government will still own a substantial stake in GM (about a third) following the IPO. If the value of shares remains flat, the government would end up losing an amount equivalent to what was given to GM during 2008, before it went bankrupt. If shares go over $50/share before the government sells its remaining stock, the public would end up with a profit on the total transaction. However, given the number of pundits who assumed that the full $50 billion would be lost, things aren't looking too bag. Certainly better than when this was posted three months ago:



    Or how things looked last year at this time (11/17/2009):


    So, what as changed?

    Does anyone really think the UAW with members on the BOD are going to let GM turn a profit much less payback tax payers?

    If, and that is a big if, they make any money, the UAW will tighten the noose for more compensation. It is the way unions operate when they are in charge.
    The Libertarian Party believes that all persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. A call for the repeal of the income tax, abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes. LP.org

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    First, I have never supported two protracted wars and said so on RTF back in 04. Secure the WMD's and get the hell out. Ditto A'stan. Haven't found Bin Laudin, then get the out.

    GM should have been allowed to run its natural course. Overpaid workers and bad product is what got them in trouble. A new company would have risen from the ashes. The bailout was payback for the UAW. With the UAW incharge, GM will never turn a profit! And, what about the families that work at Ford having to compete against the government?

    It is still a big "if" paying back tax payers.
    Regardless of how you feel about GM, they are posed to begin buying out the Govs. stake in the company. That is a top priority for GM. If the IPO reduces that ownership by 49%, I think that's a pretty good start.

    Also, it is ridiculous to think the UAW is "in charge" of GM. They are just another stakeholder. And, even with the UAW ownership, GM has turned a profit the last 3 quarters.

    While, I will agree that GM made some bad products in the past, their quality and performance over the last several years has improved dramatically, and is on par with any manufacturer. You might opt to buy Ford of GM, but that doesn't mean you are getting the better product.

    http://content.usatoday.com/communit...torture-test/1

    At this point, GM has disproved all of the predictions you have made for them. I hope they continue to prove you wrong.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    So, what as changed?

    Does anyone really think the UAW with members on the BOD are going to let GM turn a profit much less payback tax payers?

    If, and that is a big if, they make any money, the UAW will tighten the noose for more compensation. It is the way unions operate when they are in charge.
    Franco,

    The UAW has one (1) person on the board representing their interest. There are 11 other members on the board representing the interests of the other stockholders. So, how much control could the UAW have?

  7. #37
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    So, what as changed?

    Does anyone really think the UAW with members on the BOD are going to let GM turn a profit much less payback tax payers?

    If, and that is a big if, they make any money, the UAW will tighten the noose for more compensation. It is the way unions operate when they are in charge.
    Well, the big difference is that we have already recovered almost half of the total amount paid out for the bailout and have a good chance of recovering another $10 billion plus. That would mean that we recovered all the post bankruptcy costs committed by the present administration ($36 billion total). The funds spent during 2008, prior to bankruptcy, are pretty much gone. However, it is distinctly possible that some of that will be recouped as well. That makes the taxpayer $30 billion better off than you (and the bulk of other conservatives) were estimating, plus the economic benefits of having dodged the total collapse that you and others forecast would happen even with the bailout.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Well, the big difference is that we have already recovered almost half of the total amount paid out for the bailout and have a good chance of recovering another $10 billion plus. That would mean that we recovered all the post bankruptcy costs committed by the present administration ($36 billion total). The funds spent during 2008, prior to bankruptcy, are pretty much gone. However, it is distinctly possible that some of that will be recouped as well. That makes the taxpayer $30 billion better off than you (and the bulk of other conservatives) were estimating, plus the economic benefits of having dodged the total collapse that you and others forecast would happen even with the bailout.

    You mean actually collecting income taxes from millions still working vs. the billions you'd have to pay out in unemployment, medicaid, and food stamps?
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Anyone here own GM stock yet?

    What do you think the odds are that you can make money on it in the next 10 years?
    10 years? I'd say pretty good odds.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    Please try to tell me that this is not the best outcome!

    Everything he has done that has had time to run its course in turning around this economy has been successful! And everything he has done has been belittled an undermined by the right spin. This guy has the peoples back, but the republicans with the help of their spin machine has convienced you that he is bad for you.

    The fact that the american people are debating quanitative easing speaks volumes of how these spin doctors have brought monetary actions to cable news and spun it as bad and before a month ago most didn't even know what it was.
    Personally I never supported any of the bailouts. Had GM been allowed to fail, along with the big banks, the void would already been filled by better run organizations. No doubt Toyota, Nissan, etc would be building factories in the US had GM went under like they should have.

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