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Thread: Interesting DADT issue

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    Default Interesting DADT issue

    How would this be handled? I can see some big problems for Christians in the military in the future...

    From NPR
    Chaplains Worry About Careers If 'Don't Ask' Is Lifted
    December 9, 2010

    While most military personnel see no problem serving with openly gay comrades, some military chaplains are bristling. Many of the 3,000 chaplains are evangelical and believe repealing the "don't ask, don't tell" policy may affect how they do their jobs.
    Ronald Crews, a retired Army colonel and chaplain, works with active chaplains from his evangelical denomination. A few months ago, he began asking military chaplains what they thought about repealing don't ask, don't tell. One response in particular bothered him. The chaplain had just returned from a briefing by a general about the impact of changing the policy and asked if the military would protect him if he asserted that homosexuality is a sin.

    "And the response he received from this four-star general was, 'If you cannot accept the changes coming, you have an option: You can resign your commission,' " Crews says.
    Crews is one of 66 retired chaplains who sent a letter urging President Obama to retain don't ask, don't tell. Active duty chaplains have also complained anonymously. One said in a Pentagon survey that the change creates an "unavoidable conflict" with his ability to preach and teach the Bible. Another asked whether chaplains would be forced to integrate gay soldiers into family ministry.

    Daniel Blomberg, an attorney for the conservative legal group Alliance Defense Fund, wonders: What if a soldier confides to a chaplain that he's gay?

    "What happens when the chaplain responds according to the dictates of his faith and says that type of behavior -- like other types of sexual sins -- is not in accordance with God's will?" he says.

    Blomberg says the proposed rules don't make it clear how the chaplain should handle the situation. But, he says, the chaplain could be open to a charge of discrimination based on sexual orientation.

    "And that could be career-ending for a chaplain," he says.

    Chaplains won't be able to freely express their faith, he says. "They feel that repealing don't ask, don't tell will put them in the situation where they have to choose between obeying the God they serve and the country they love."

    Retired Major Gen. John Altenberg, who was the No. 2 lawyer in the Army, disagrees. He says, for example, if a chaplain were uncomfortable counseling a gay soldier he could ask another chaplain to counsel him.

    "They wouldn't be forced to do it," he says.

    Dennis Camp, a retired colonel and Army chaplain for 27 years, says the proposed rules clearly protect a chaplain's religious rights. What chaplains can't do, he says, is act like "moral policemen" and openly condemn homosexuality. Would they consider it 'open condemnation' if the chaplain had a sermon that stated that homosexuality is sinful and wrong?The chaplain's job is to serve everyone -- religious or not, gay or straight. Camp says the objections raised by evangelicals are a smoke screen.

    "They have made it an issue because they want to fight this thing on moral grounds," he says. "That's not the kind of fight it is. It's a civil rights issue."

    But ultimately, even if don't ask, don't tell is repealed, evangelicals say they'll still supply chaplains because so many people in the armed forces come from conservative denominations.

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    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    How would this be handled? I can see some big problems for Christians in the military in the future...

    From NPR
    Not at all. Military chaplains are professionals at what they do. They are specifically trained to render spiritual counselling to soldiers of all faiths, in a compassionate, nonjudgemental way.

    As we speak, chaplains of Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, Islamic, and other faiths are giving guidance to troops of all the above faiths and more. This is no different.

    If a chaplain can't do his job properly, ie he has so much resentment for a group of people or behavior that he or she can't see beyond that, and render guidance as they're charged to do....they should be out of a job.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Not at all. Military chaplains are professionals at what they do. They are specifically trained to render spiritual counselling to soldiers of all faiths, in a compassionate, nonjudgemental way.

    As we speak, chaplains of Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, Islamic, and other faiths are giving guidance to troops of all the above faiths and more. This is no different.

    If a chaplain can't do his job properly, ie he has so much resentment for a group of people or behavior that he or she can't see beyond that, and render guidance as they're charged to do....they should be out of a job.
    How the hell do you know what a military chaplain is trained to do? What a Cliff Clavin!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandyg View Post
    How the hell do you know what a military chaplain is trained to do? What a Cliff Clavin!!!
    Because when I was deployed to JTF-SWA in Saudi Arabia, my roomate for 6 months was a Philipine-Catholic Chaplain, and we spoke often, at length, on all matters spiritual, medical, weather, politics, dogs, or whatever passed the time. I specifically asked him if he felt ackward administering to Jews or others who don't share his faith. He smiled, and said absolutely not. So long as he helps soldiers connect with their spiritual comforts, he's done his job. THAT's how I know what the hell a military chaplain is trained to do, Woody.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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    Senior Member sandyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Because when I was deployed to JTF-SWA in Saudi Arabia, my roomate for 6 months was a Philipine-Catholic Chaplain, and we spoke often, at length, on all matters spiritual, medical, weather, politics, dogs, or whatever passed the time. I specifically asked him if he felt ackward administering to Jews or others who don't share his faith. He smiled, and said absolutely not. So long as he helps soldiers connect with their spiritual comforts, he's done his job. THAT's how I know what the hell a military chaplain is trained to do, Woody.
    So you got second hand information (hearsay) and that makes you an expert on military chaplain training? By that logic I'm a law enforcement officer because my Dad is a retired Chicago cop and Korean war veteran!

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    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandyg View Post
    By that logic I'm a law enforcement officer because my Dad is a retired Chicago cop and Korean war veteran!
    No, you're just an a$$. But you probably have more knowledge than most about police work if you spoke often with your Dad about his job.

    I am very interested in what other people do, and how they see their jobs, and ask frequently about those things. Its amazing what you can hear just by listening.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    No, you're just an a$$. But you probably have more knowledge than most about police work if you spoke often with your Dad about his job.

    I am very interested in what other people do, and how they see their jobs, and ask frequently about those things. Its amazing what you can hear just by listening.
    Once again taking the high road...

    LMAO!!!

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    Senior Member Clay Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandyg View Post
    Once again taking the high road...

    LMAO!!!

    Not that Dave needs any help, but I don't think I have ever seen you make a positive post. You are kinda like the republican Roger Perry. People can have knowledge of other careers besides the one they are involved in everyday. And I don't think information coming from a chaplin is second hand info, do you? Since we are talking about chaplins and all.
    RIP SGT. David Blake Williams KIA 22 Mar 2008 Iraq


    Every day should be Veteran's day.


    "They say War is Hell, but I have to disagree. War is easy. It's the living afterwards thats hell." Author Unknown

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandyg View Post
    Once again taking the high road...

    LMAO!!!
    I just say it as I see it.
    Sometimes its rough.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpholehunter View Post
    Not that Dave needs any help, but I don't think I have ever seen you make a positive post. You are kinda like the republican Roger Perry. People can have knowledge of other careers besides the one they are involved in everyday. And I don't think information coming from a chaplin is second hand info, do you? Since we are talking about chaplins and all.
    Yes. people can have knowledge of other careers. But don't pass yourself off as an expert in it just because you talked to someone about it.

    And yes, it is second hand info. The first hand info is if he went to military chaplain training himself. When you state, unequivocally, that "They are specifically trained to render spiritual counselling to soldiers of all faiths, in a compassionate, nonjudgemental way. " then a reasonable person assumes that you have first hand knowledge of the subject.

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