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Thread: Police State

  1. #21
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Legally yes. But a road or parking lot, same idea. Look, I don't like it, but it ain't going away. Phone taps, computer profiling, email interdiction, security cameras..... Its all part of the 911 mentality, when we really started giving up privacy and rights in the name of security. Didn't like it then, don't like it now.

    We live in Oceania now.
    Blaming 9/11 or the Patriot Act for law enforcement surveillance in mall parking lots is as laughably absurd as claiming that if the Wright brothers were aborted by their mom we'd not have airplanes now.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    Unfortunately the terrorists have won a huge battle when it comes to having Americans living in fear. LOL. Oh, the humanity. Trying to catch thieves in a mall parking lot = surrender to terrorists. Since 9/11 we have changed so many laws(Patriot Act) in the name of security that we have now become desensitized to what freedom really means. Yeah, you REALLY became desnsitized because I asked you a year or so ago to give me one example of your personal rights being infringed by the govt. post-9/11 and you couldn't come up with one example. Freedom and liberty have cost's and we should think twice before we so willingly give those up.
    ........................
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  3. #23
    Senior Member BrianW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. Mac View Post
    It is not actually the police who are doing this surveillance, rather it is the loss control company at the malls and shopping centers. They are looking primarily for stolen cars, as the car thiefs also tend to like to do purse snatching, and smash and grabs from vehicles in the parking lot - stolen car not as easy to trace back to the thieves if someone does happen to get a good description. However if loss prevention can id a car as stolen as they drive into the parking lot... T. Mac
    So then how are LCC's confirming whether or not the car is "stolen" prior to it entering the private property, if not by accessing an LE database?
    Seems to me like that's crossing the line between "public safety" & "private interest".
    Should a private company then be able to see if license plate's owner has ever been convicted pf shoplifting, vandalism, or anything else that might affect the business? The implications of this are quite the "slippery slope" imo and sounds like a takeoff on "Minority Report".
    "It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
    Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
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  4. #24
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    Blaming 9/11 or the Patriot Act for law enforcement surveillance in mall parking lots is as laughably absurd as claiming that if the Wright brothers were aborted by their mom we'd not have airplanes now.
    You are surprised?


    RK
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    You are surprised?


    RK

    these same scanners have been built in the light boxes on many patrol cars for a while now, so they are scanning passively all the time. and why shouldnt walmart check you out? you are on their private property, and your criminal record is public. they have a right to check your id at the door, and a right to search your car in the parking lot. and you have the right to shop somewhere else.

    although i dont particularly like this idea, i dont drive a stolen car or have a record for shoplifting or other similar crimes so i am not too worried. sign of the times and nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 or the patriot act.

  6. #26
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cotts135
    Unfortunately the terrorists have won a huge battle when it comes to having Americans living in fear. LOL. Oh, the humanity. Trying to catch thieves in a mall parking lot = surrender to terrorists. Since 9/11 we have changed so many laws(Patriot Act) in the name of security that we have now become desensitized to what freedom really means. Yeah, you REALLY became desnsitized because I asked you a year or so ago to give me one example of your personal rights being infringed by the govt. post-9/11 and you couldn't come up with one example. Freedom and liberty have cost's and we should think twice before we so willingly give those up.[/QUOTE]


    Like usual you twist around what I said and inject your own spin which has nothing to do with what I wrote. If you believe that we haven't moved more towards a surveillance state at least more so since 9-11 that's fine. At least support your position. I just disagree with you.
    Last edited by cotts135; 12-20-2010 at 08:12 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudd View Post
    Wal-Mart and Target parking lots are private property.
    So.....? The police departments are given fairly free access to these areas by the owners. I was the land owner's representative on the lease for a very large shopping mall. We didn't have any problem whatsoever with having police on the property.

    Eric

  8. #28
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    Blaming 9/11 or the Patriot Act for law enforcement surveillance in mall parking lots is as laughably absurd as claiming that if the Wright brothers were aborted by their mom we'd not have airplanes now.
    You don't think that 9-11 ushered in a yearning for security, that we have been sacraficing privacy in an attempt to achieve?


    Really?

    Then whey did I see Ben Franklin being quoted here as saying 'those who would trade liberties for security, deserve neither'?? Was that just a non-sequitor that popped up in a thread about the best brand of bumpers??
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #29
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post
    these same scanners have been built in the light boxes on many patrol cars for a while now, so they are scanning passively all the time. and why shouldnt walmart check you out? you are on their private property, and your criminal record is public. they have a right to check your id at the door, and a right to search your car in the parking lot. and you have the right to shop somewhere else.

    although i dont particularly like this idea, i dont drive a stolen car or have a record for shoplifting or other similar crimes so i am not too worried. sign of the times and nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 or the patriot act.
    I think they should scan grocery carts and see who's buying sodas, twinkies, and cigarettes, then send them a surcharge on the gov't run healthcare!

    And give those of us who buy fresh vegetables and natural foods a rebate!

    Of course, Bon's 42 cent daily purchases are likely to raise suspicion....
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    I think they should scan grocery carts and see who's buying sodas, twinkies, and cigarettes, then send them a surcharge on the gov't run healthcare!

    And give those of us who buy fresh vegetables and natural foods a rebate!

    Of course, Bon's 42 cent daily purchases are likely to raise suspicion....
    they can already track that, what do you think that little membership card does that gets you the "in house" sale price? they dont mine that data very much currently, but there is a lot of potential mining to do. i hate those cards, used to be something on sale was on sale for everybody, but now you have to have a card when they have a good deal on shrimp or 1/2 off on angus ny strips.

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