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Thread: healthcare for 911 first responders

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    You're kidding, right?

    I would be happy and PROUD to know my tax dollars go to helping those who didn't hesitate in the face of personal danger to help fellow Americans. That was an attack on America. Not just NYC.

    You ARE kidding, right?
    No, I am not kidding! Explain to me why the taxpayer is any state but NY has any responsibility toward those folks. & then I will gladly explain to you why I think they do not!!!!!!!!!

    Your argument to date is only an emotional one, not based in fact, please try facts.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Just a few weeks ago the deficit was the great evil facing America with intense focus on the report from the debt commission, everyone in Washington was saying that what we need is austerity NOW! The following week ushers in a magical extension of the Bush tax cuts, blowing a hole in the deficit that makes the Obama stimulus look like small potatoes. Face it, concern for the deficit is a front for opposing any progressive initiative, but that concern is quickly forgotten when running up the debt serves conservative goals.
    While Democrats have a better record on attacking deficits than Republicans since 1980, they have both lost all sense of responsibility now. The moment someone starts gtelling you that his deifict is jusyified because it is an investment in our future, it's time to sew your wallet in your pocket. It is justifiable to run a short term deficit to stimulate the economy during a downturn. It is appropriate to run a short term surplus when the economy is growing too fast. You cannot run a short term deficit or surpus unless the action taken are not permanent. Over the long term, the budget must be in balance. It doesn't matter if we have a war, our schools need improving, or our roads and infrastructure are falling apart. All of those are good reasons for governments to spend money; they are not excuses for failing to pay our bills. If a war is worth fighting, it is worth paying for it now even if that requires a special war tax.Those who think that cutting tax invariably increases revenues haven't read the research. Even if one accepts the untested and unproven hypotheses behind the Laffer curve, the emphasis is n the word curve. The hypothesis is that there is a sweet point for taxes. When you are at that sweet point, either increasing or decreasing taxes will cut revenues. There is some evidence to support the hypothesis as long as you include a lot of footnoted caveats. However, the problems with the Bush tax cuts was that they clearly went below that sweet point and decreased revenues. That works only if the society makes a concrete decision to redefine the role of government. For our government to operate at current revenue levels, part of that redefinition must be to end our role as a military superpower. Few seem willing to do this. Closing down all the departments that conservatives hate would barely make a dent in our deficit.

  3. #13
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    I don't know. Why was any federal aid sent to the PacNW when Mt. St.Helens erupted? It was a local event.

    Odd. Terrorists hit America. Kill 3000 from all 50 states, disrupt national and global economies, every flight in the US grounded for 3 days (except Saudis fleeing the country by executive order) people from all over responded during crisis, the President of the United States stood on the rubble with a bullhorn, arm in arm with first responders.....and you call it a NY thing?

    But you have no problem with a multi-trillion dollar war that we are still engaged in? Gee, that's a pretty big commitment from two presidents for just a NY thing!

    Wow, if you're just pullin' my leg, I fell for it. (giving you an out here)

    You ARE kidding, right?
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  4. #14
    Senior Member sandyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    You're kidding, right?

    I would be happy and PROUD to know my tax dollars go to helping those who didn't hesitate in the face of personal danger to help fellow Americans. That was an attack on America. Not just NYC.

    You ARE kidding, right?
    You like it so much, you write the check! Stop belittling those who think it is a local issue, not a national issue.

  5. #15
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Who belittled anyone?
    Your president launched the war in Afghanistan, to "hunt down and kill" those responsible for 911. Why would the president, he's a busy man, get involved in such a local issue? Why should the US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard (thank you RK!) be involved in New York's problems?

    Is this a republican stance?
    I can't believe that many republicans feel that we non-New Yorkers should turn our backs on police and firemen of 9-11. George Bush didn't. Or were his words and deeds there with the bull horn just photo-op?

    So you can come up with 800 billion in unfunded (ie borrowed from China) dollars for tax cuts, but you can't come up with 1/100th of that for fellow Americans responding to a national disaster? A terrorist attack on our soil?

    You guys are jerkin' my chain, aren't you? The joke's on me?
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    I don't know. Why was any federal aid sent to the PacNW when Mt. St.Helens erupted? It was a local event.
    Mt St Helens is on federal property, though we are not discussing that event, it would also be one where the aid if I had a vote would have been miserly. Those folks chose to live there, geologic events happen!!!!!!

    Odd. Terrorists hit America. Kill 3000 from all 50 states, disrupt national and global economies, every flight in the US grounded for 3 days (except Saudis fleeing the country by executive order) people from all over responded during crisis, the President of the United States stood on the rubble with a bullhorn, arm in arm with first responders.....and you call it a NY thing?
    I have not forgotten the fact, though some on this forum have, that 3,000 innocent people were killed. I also have not forgotten their country of origin. As for GWB & the bullhorn, it was the only way someone of his class could rally the country. I am most thankful it was not algore or one of the other incompetents foisted off on the country as progressives.

    But you have no problem with a multi-trillion dollar war that we are still engaged in? Gee, that's a pretty big commitment from two presidents for just a NY thing!

    Wow, if you're just pullin' my leg, I fell for it. (giving you an out here)

    You ARE kidding, right?
    NO, I am not kidding!!!!!!!!!! I am not happy with the war & the prosecution of same, but do believe we need to be there, but in a different manner. I am not happy with the open checkbook philosophy started by GWB & continued by BHO, & believe there to have been a better way. But it shows what a joke our public agencies: CIA, State Dept, etc. have become with the 70% rate of progressives in their employ.

    Now for the 3rd time - what are your ideas, justify why you believe I should pay for 1 0unce of HC for an employee of a state that is basically bankrupt. They hired the employee, set the terms & conditions, I had no input, why would you consider me remotely responsible for what they do???????????????
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  7. #17
    Senior Member sandyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Who belittled anyone?
    Your president launched the war in Afghanistan, to "hunt down and kill" those responsible for 911. Why would the president, he's a busy man, get involved in such a local issue? Why should the US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard (thank you RK!) be involved in New York's problems?

    Is this a republican stance?
    I can't believe that many republicans feel that we non-New Yorkers should turn our backs on police and firemen of 9-11. George Bush didn't. Or were his words and deeds there with the bull horn just photo-op?

    So you can come up with 800 billion in unfunded (ie borrowed from China) dollars for tax cuts, but you can't come up with 1/100th of that for fellow Americans responding to a national disaster? A terrorist attack on our soil?

    You guys are jerkin' my chain, aren't you? The joke's on me?
    Wipe the drool off of your chin, you blithering idiot. Yours is not the only opinion or the correct opinion, you sanctimonious a$$hole.

  8. #18
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandyg View Post
    Wipe the drool off of your chin, you blithering idiot. Yours is not the only opinion or the correct opinion, you sanctimonious a$$hole.

    There ya go!
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #19
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Now for the 3rd time - what are your ideas, justify why you believe I should pay for 1 0unce of HC for an employee of a state that is basically bankrupt. They hired the employee, set the terms & conditions, I had no input, why would you consider me remotely responsible for what they do???????????????
    Hey, I agree with some of what you said up there about the wars!

    As for your question above, I can't believe you need an explanation. Those men and women responded to a NATIONAL ATTACK. They didn't check their union rules on overtime. They ran head first into the fire to help who ever needed it. Many of them who ran into those towers never came out. Some of them have lost their city or state benefits after being released for "non work-related" factors.

    Maybe they weren't wearing federal or military uniforms, but they served not only NYC, but the entire nation those days, and deserve compensation for the health effects they suffered.

    So is this your opinion, or the position of the republican party also?
    I just find this so incongruent with all the show of patriotism the republican party used surrounding 9-11, and all the first responders that appeared on fox waving flags. (all American flags, no NY state flags, BTW)
    Last edited by dnf777; 12-21-2010 at 10:02 PM.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  10. #20
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandyg View Post
    Wipe the drool off of your chin, you blithering idiot. Yours is not the only opinion or the correct opinion, you sanctimonious a$$hole.
    How this person manages to maintain an active account here is a mystery.
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