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  1. #41
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpholehunter View Post
    Not trying to call you out Dave, but have you served on the front lines? Actual front line, with bullets flying by and grenades being lobed at you, people bleeding and dying next to you, I don't know of many MD's that have. I did, however, and I would not have liked it one damn bit! And you can call me what you want, homophobe, simple-minded or whatever, don't care. Gay men and women have no place in the military, period. If they want to serve, let them serve in the peace corp!

    My reason is simple, it's the same reason I wouldn't want a woman next to me either.
    Been there, agree 100%!!!


    RK
    Stan b & Elvis

  2. #42
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpholehunter View Post
    Not trying to call you out Dave, but have you served on the front lines? Actual front line, with bullets flying by and grenades being lobed at you, people bleeding and dying next to you, I don't know of many MD's that have. I did, however, and I would not have liked it one damn bit! And you can call me what you want, homophobe, simple-minded or whatever, don't care. Gay men and women have no place in the military, period. If they want to serve, let them serve in the peace corp!

    My reason is simple, it's the same reason I wouldn't want a woman next to me either.
    I try not to call people out either, but if we're going to, let's ask everyone who has and who hasn't served....combat, peacetime military, boy scouts, etc...

    And I don't want to get into a tit-for-tat with you or any other veteran other than to thank you for your service, but YES, my ADA battery defended Prince Sultan Air Base during Operation Desert Fox and SouthernWatch. We were first in line for the SCUDS, and spent more time that I cared to in MOPP-4 gear, full ready posture. Fortunately, that phase of operations did not see bullets flying. I know that makes me less of a veteran than you, but I know even under those cushy circumstances, I was too damn worried about VX, sarin, setting up decon stations, and anthrax than to question the orientation of the guys and gals with me.

    As for no women in the military..........ain't touching that one! Other than to say my Batallion commander was among the first female-inclusive class at West Point, and I wouldn't want to say that to her face!
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  3. #43
    Senior Member BrianW's Avatar
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    For the most part, I think the type of person who would enlist to serve their country as a profession are not going to do things to sabotage that career. But it's not as simple as say, just wanting to be able to greet your "significant other" the same way the hetero couple does when you step off the plane.

    The problem, imo, will be from the militant gay activists who are out to make political points and enjoy the disruption that it causes in the status quo because of the crossing of gender roles.
    "It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
    Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
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  4. #44
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    For the most part, I think the type of person who would enlist to serve their country as a profession are not going to do things to sabotage that career. But it's not as simple as say, just wanting to be able to greet your "significant other" the same way the hetero couple does when you step off the plane.

    The problem, imo, will be from the militant gay activists who are out to make political points and enjoy the disruption that it causes in the status quo because of the crossing of gender roles.

    If a male and female were caught "fraternizing" on a given base what would occur.
    UCMJ addresses this issue clearly.

    That will now not be allowed with this ruling.
    So they will no longer be treated the same, now they will be "special."

    Which is the political end game all along.

    The military is being used as a social test tube for progressives.
    (middle of the road independents)


    RK
    Last edited by road kill; 12-28-2010 at 09:09 AM.
    Stan b & Elvis

  5. #45
    Senior Member Clay Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    I try not to call people out either, but if we're going to, let's ask everyone who has and who hasn't served....combat, peacetime military, boy scouts, etc...

    And I don't want to get into a tit-for-tat with you or any other veteran other than to thank you for your service, but YES, my ADA battery defended Prince Sultan Air Base during Operation Desert Fox and SouthernWatch. We were first in line for the SCUDS, and spent more time that I cared to in MOPP-4 gear, full ready posture. Fortunately, that phase of operations did not see bullets flying. I know that makes me less of a veteran than you, but I know even under those cushy circumstances, I was too damn worried about VX, sarin, setting up decon stations, and anthrax than to question the orientation of the guys and gals with me.

    As for no women in the military..........ain't touching that one! Other than to say my Batallion commander was among the first female-inclusive class at West Point, and I wouldn't want to say that to her face!

    It does not make you less of veteran than me, I was merely wondering where your knowledge of front line combat came from. Last time I checked, VA doesn't offer different benefits for different levels of "veteranship".

    But having this first hand knowledge, I can tell you that an overwhelming majority of combat troops don't see it the way you do. Right or wrong, you want some one you know you can trust and count on when sh!t don't go according to plan, which is all the time in combat.(Murphy's Law and all) And I think it's great that all those other countries have seen fit to let gays serve. Maybe the gays that want to serve here should go over there and join, and they can all stand around comparing dress sizes and lipstick color.

















    That last line was merely a joke, please take it as such.
    RIP SGT. David Blake Williams KIA 22 Mar 2008 Iraq


    Every day should be Veteran's day.


    "They say War is Hell, but I have to disagree. War is easy. It's the living afterwards thats hell." Author Unknown

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    western europe, northern europe, England, France, Germany.....
    Don't know about the rest of you, but I have no desire for our country to be like these listed ones at all...

    The US is the US. We are who we are and we didn't get this way by copying anyone along the way in the last few hundred years. That's part of what makes us a great nation.

  7. #47
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpholehunter View Post
    I think it's great that all those other countries have seen fit to let gays serve. Maybe the gays that want to serve here should go over there and join, and they can all stand around comparing dress sizes and lipstick color.


    That last line was merely a joke, please take it as such.

    In my experience, the several troops we all "knew" were pitching for the other team, were excellent soldiers, who did their jobs, and nobody seemed to mind one bit, despite virtually knowing they were gay. The closer we got to real danger, folks cared and even took notice....LESS.

    Brain's comments were very fore telling. Of COURSE there will be a vocal few who will get ALL the media attention, especially on FOX. Just like racial, gender and any other minority group, there will be those with a very loud agenda. These are the people that the RWM will focus upon. Guaranteed.

    Thank you, sincerely, for your service to country.
    And FWIW, despite our differences of opinion, I would gladly stand next to you in conflict, any day brother.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Brain's comments were very fore telling. Of COURSE there will be a vocal few who will get ALL the media attention, especially on FOX. Just like racial, gender and any other minority group, there will be those with a very loud agenda. These are the people that the RWM will focus upon. Guaranteed.

    I guarantee that the MSM/LWM (sorry to be redundant) will all but ignore the ones who raise hell. Don't knock Fox, someone has to tell the other side and it sure as hell won't be ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, Huffington Post, etc etc...I have a hard time seeing Rachel Maddow reporting honestly about any negative consequences from this decision.

    As far as the ones 'with a very loud agenda', they got what they said they wanted. Now, they need to STFU and serve like everyone else (which is what they claim is all they wanted), or get kicked out for insubordination and any other violations of military code that might fit.
    Last edited by ducknwork; 12-28-2010 at 10:05 AM.

  9. #49
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    The US is the US. We are who we are and we didn't get this way by copying anyone along the way in the last few hundred years. That's part of what makes us a great nation.
    You should really read about the founding fathers, the framers of the Constitution, English common law, the magna carta, the Greek and Roman forms of governance. While you're at it, check out Halloween, St. Nicholas, St. Valentine's day....they're not American in origin!

    IMO, what makes us a great nation is our incorporating the best of what everyone has to offer, and creating a new culture from many. And the ability to kick a$$ when need be.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  10. #50
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    I guarantee that the MSM/LWM (sorry to be redundant) will all but ignore the ones who raise hell. Don't knock Fox, someone has to tell the other side and it sure as hell won't be ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, Huffington Post, etc etc...I have a hard time seeing Rachel Maddow reporting honestly about any negative consequences from this decision.
    Both ends of the political and social spectrum have vociferous kooks that deserve to be ignored. Unfortunately, in our polarized society, they are the very ones who get ALL the media coverage.

    As for the STFU comment, I agree. If they persist in demonstrating and having decadence parades on base, they should and WILL be disciplined, just as if straight couples hosted love-ins on base.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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