The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 311121314 LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 132

Thread: Goobernment Motors

  1. #121
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    West Twin Cities Metro, MN
    Posts
    2,140

    Default

    Here is the skinny from CNN Nov 10, 2011:
    The facts: In 2009, both General Motors and Chrysler went into bankruptcy to restructure after receiving billions of dollars in federal loans.

    As General Motors emerged from bankruptcy in July 2009, the U.S. Treasury took a 60.8% stake in the company in return for a $50 billion bailout. A trust established to fund health care benefits for UAW retirees -- not the UAW itself -- took a 17.5% stake. The Canadian government took a 12.5% stake, and unsecured bondholders were given a 10% share.

    The trust fund came about as part of GM's restructuring. The UAW essentially agreed to shift responsibility for retiree health care costs away from GM to the union-controlled trust fund, consisting of company stock rather than cash.

    Stock for the post-bankruptcy GM was available for public trading starting in November 2010. As of August, the U.S. Treasury still owned about a third of the shares, with the UAW fund owning about 12.8%, according to Fortune.

    After Chrysler went into bankruptcy in 2009, a new Chrysler Group emerged, with Fiat owning a 20% stake in a deal brokered by the U.S. government, which took an 8% stake. A majority stake -- 55% -- was owned by a UAW retiree trust.

    Fiat increased its stake over time, up to 53.5% by this July when it bought the last of the U.S. Treasury's shares. Union-controlled trust funds controlled 46%.

    Verdict: Misleading. A UAW benefits fund -- not the union itself -- owns a part of GM. Another UAW benefit fund and Fiat took stakes in Chrysler, which -- like GM -- was on the verge of collapse.


    The Tampa Bay Times Politifacts also debunks the notion the companies were handed to the UAW.
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...companies-uni/

    Another link:
    http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2010...-new-gm-stock/
    Last edited by zeus3925; 08-16-2012 at 03:19 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  2. #122
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,740

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Here is the skinny from CNN Nov 10, 2011:
    The facts: In 2009, both General Motors and Chrysler went into bankruptcy to restructure after receiving billions of dollars in federal loans.

    As General Motors emerged from bankruptcy in July 2009, the U.S. Treasury took a 60.8% stake in the company in return for a $50 billion bailout. A trust established to fund health care benefits for UAW retirees -- not the UAW itself -- took a 17.5% stake. The Canadian government took a 12.5% stake, and unsecured bondholders were given a 10% share.

    The trust fund came about as part of GM's restructuring. The UAW essentially agreed to shift responsibility for retiree health care costs away from GM to the union-controlled trust fund, consisting of company stock rather than cash.

    Stock for the post-bankruptcy GM was available for public trading starting in November 2010. As of August, the U.S. Treasury still owned about a third of the shares, with the UAW fund owning about 12.8%, according to Fortune.

    After Chrysler went into bankruptcy in 2009, a new Chrysler Group emerged, with Fiat owning a 20% stake in a deal brokered by the U.S. government, which took an 8% stake. A majority stake -- 55% -- was owned by a UAW retiree trust.

    Fiat increased its stake over time, up to 53.5% by this July when it bought the last of the U.S. Treasury's shares. Union-controlled trust funds controlled 46%.

    Verdict: Misleading. A UAW benefits fund -- not the union itself -- owns a part of GM. Another UAW benefit fund and Fiat took stakes in Chrysler, which -- like GM -- was on the verge of collapse.
    So, who controls the UAW Benefit Fund?
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  3. #123
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,275

    Default

    Sarge, it is too easy for someone to float a lie, because the right wants to be able to say that Obama wasted tax payer money and the unions are bad because they support democrats. The right does not want to know the truth because they don't want to say thank you mr president for helping my neighbors in need. I don't quite understand why a working man would fault a union that worked so hard to protect its members when they were on the verge of losing everything. Then yell that the bondholders got screwed by the governmnet and the union. The bond holders bought those bonds for less tha 20 cents on the dollar, speculating that they could sell the assets and make 40 cents. You want these guys to win at the sake of your neighbor that just went to work everyday with a hope he would not have to one day. Sad world when folks think this way!!!!!!

  4. #124
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Wetumka, OK
    Posts
    585

    Default

    If I have an e-trade account, I can click the button that says "buy" or "sell". My question is this:

    Who holds the trigger on this:

    As General Motors emerged from bankruptcy in July 2009, the U.S. Treasury took a 60.8% stake



    Who says "when" to sell and "how much" the stock has to be worth?
    "I'm gonna lean up against you, and you lean up against me. That way we don't hafta sleep with our heads in the mud"
    Forrest Gump, 1994

  5. #125
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,740

    Default

    [QUOTE=ARay11;999735]If I have an e-trade account, I can click the button that says "buy" or "sell". My question is this:

    Who holds the trigger on this:

    As General Motors emerged from bankruptcy in July 2009, the U.S. Treasury took a 60.8% stake



    Who says "when" to sell and "how much" the stock has to be worth?[/QUOTE]

    That would be our financial phenom, Timmy Gietner's call.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  6. #126
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Wetumka, OK
    Posts
    585

    Default

    this guy??...

    It was revealed that Geithner had not paid $35,000 in self-employment taxes for the years 2001–2004.[28] The International Monetary Fund (IMF), an international agency and his employer during the time in question, did not withhold Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax, but instead reimbursed the usual employer responsibility of 50% of these taxes to employees who were subject to the taxes. Geithner had received the reimbursements and paid the amounts received to the government, but had not paid the other 50% which would normally have been withheld from his pay. This failure to pay was noted during a 2006 audit by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), in which Geithner was assessed additional taxes of $14,847 for the 2003 and 2004 tax years. The statute of limitations had expired for 2001 and 2002, and Geithner did not file amended returns or pay the additional amounts due for those years until after Obama expressed his intent to nominate Geithner to be Secretary of the Treasury.[29][30][31] He also deducted the cost of his children's sleep-away camp as a dependent care expense, when only expenses for day care are eligible for the deduction[31], failed to assess himself an early-withdrawal penalty from a retirement plan, took a charitable-contribution deduction for ineligible items, an improper small-business deduction, and made illegal expensing of utility costs that went for personal use.[32] Geithner subsequently paid the IRS the additional taxes owed,[33] and was charged $15,000 interest, but was not fined for late payment.[34]
    "I'm gonna lean up against you, and you lean up against me. That way we don't hafta sleep with our heads in the mud"
    Forrest Gump, 1994

  7. #127
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Wetumka, OK
    Posts
    585

    Default

    I googled Geithner, and found some info. Appointed position, not elected, doesnt seem to have to answer to much of anyone. So, it appears as though the taxpayer has no say as to when where or how much we can cash in on our GM stock. Ok, that's cool..... send me my shares so I can control them
    "I'm gonna lean up against you, and you lean up against me. That way we don't hafta sleep with our heads in the mud"
    Forrest Gump, 1994

  8. #128
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Berlin, WI
    Posts
    10,698

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    Sarge, it is too easy for someone to float a lie, because the right wants to be able to say that Obama wasted tax payer money and the unions are bad because they support democrats. The right does not want to know the truth because they don't want to say thank you mr president for helping my neighbors in need. I don't quite understand why a working man would fault a union that worked so hard to protect its members when they were on the verge of losing everything. Then yell that the bondholders got screwed by the governmnet and the union. The bond holders bought those bonds for less tha 20 cents on the dollar, speculating that they could sell the assets and make 40 cents. You want these guys to win at the sake of your neighbor that just went to work everyday with a hope he would not have to one day. Sad world when folks think this way!!!!!!
    $.50 on the dollar??

    The taxpayer is getting screwed!!!

    Maybe some progressives can spin this union saving (votes and cash for Dems) bailout was good for US?????

    That's right folks, now that the election is over the treasury dept is dumping GM stock for $.50 on the original dollar.
    Losses in the BILLIONS for we the taxpayers that footed the bill.

    Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S.
    By David Shepardson
    Detroit News Washington Bureau
    315Comments

    Zoom
    The U.S. Treasury said it will announce a written plan to begin selling its remaining 300 million shares of GM in January. (Detroit News file)
    Washington The Obama administration said Wednesday it will sell 200 million shares or 40 percent of its remaining stake in General Motors Co. back to the automaker and announced plans to completely exit the Detroit automaker by March 2014.

    The Detroit automaker said it will purchase 200 million shares of GM stock held by Treasury for $5.5 billion or $27.50 per share nearly $2 above the stock's closing price on Tuesday. GM shares jumped sharply on the news and were up 7.5 percent to $27.36, or $1.90, early afternoon in very heavy trading.

    The U.S. Treasury, after more than a year of refusing to say when it might start selling its remaining stake in GM, said it willannounce a written plan in January to shed its remaining 300 million shares over the next 12 to 15 months, likely in a series of small stock sales.

    The Treasury's move is intended to minimize the impact of the stock sale on the share price and the government's state will shrink from 26.5 percent to less than 19 percent but the exit could be completed far more quickly.

    The exit plan may prove to be a boost to GM's lagging stock price and to some car buyers, who have avoided GM because of the "Government Motors" label.

    The exit timetable signals the end of one of the most extraordinary government interventions in the U.S. economy in history the rescue and partial nationalization of two U.S. automakers and their finance arms supported by two U.S. presidents.

    Still, taxpayers will almost certainly lose billions of dollars in the $49.5 billion GM bailout - and the government would need to sell its remaining shares for about $70 each to break even. If the government sold the rest of its stock at current prices, taxpayers would lose more than $13 billion. But profits from the bank and AIG bailouts will largely offset the auto bailout losses.
    "The government should not be in the business of owning stakes in private companies for an indefinite period of time," Assistant Treasury Secretary Tim Massad said in a statement who oversees the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program. "Moving to exit our investment in GM within the next 12 to 15 months is consistent with our dual goals of winding down TARP as soon as practicable and protecting taxpayer interests."

    The Treasury has also agreed to waive its ban on GM using corporate aircraft a condition it imposed on a few companies that got large bailouts in 2008 and 2009 but government pay restrictions on top executives remain in force.

    The restrictions limit most GM executives to no more than $500,000 a year in cash salaries. GM chief financial officer Dan Ammann said the issue is one of "ongoing discussions" between GM and Treasury.

    The Treasury is also waiving a "vitality commitment" that required certain U.S. manufacturing volumes but GM is already exceeding it and expects to continue, the company said.

    Despite the government ownership, White House officials insisted they would have no role in GM's management, though there were some exceptions. In one notable move, the Obama administration vetoed a proposal by GM in 2009 to move its corporate headquarters from Detroit to Warren.

    Ammann said the company has "no current plans" to buy or lease corporate aircraft - but company executives have long chafed at the fact they are forced to fly commercial - unlike other top corporate executives.

    Ammann declined to discuss when the automaker and Treasury began negotiations about the sale or how it settled on the price. Ammann said GM doesn't expect to buy the remaining Treasury shares.

    GM CEO Dan Akerson told company executives in an email that the move would help end a painful chapter in the automaker's life that nearly saw the company collapse in late 2008 without emergency government assistance.

    "Today, GM and the U.S. Treasury are putting in motion a plan that will begin to close the books on the extraordinary government assistance that saved the company and our industry," Akerson wrote. "It has never been far from my mind that taxpayers rightfully expected us to change the way we do business in exchange for a second chance."

    GM which was criticized for corporate arrogance and for a moribund culture has reshuffled its entire executive lineup since 2009 and made dramatic changes in how it does business.

    "We are learning to be humble and to genuinely appreciate every customer," Akerson wrote.

    In a Detroit News interview in 2011, Akerson said GM wasn't changing fast enough.

    "Whoever comes after me; it's going to be a more important appointment than mine because he or she will have to carry on a cultural revolution here. It's just like the Communist Party in China in the 1960s, there has to be a cultural revolution here," he said.

    GM which last month obtained a new $5.5 billion line of credit said its balance sheet will remain strong, with estimated liquidity of $38 billion at the end of 2012, following the closing of the share buyback.

    Several analysts have suggested the company would use some of its liquidity to buy back shares.

    "A U.S. Treasury sell-down was increasingly anticipated, although the actions were earlier than we expected and at a lower price," Peter Nesvold, an analyst with Jefferies & Co. wrote in a research note Wednesday. "The structure was probably more surprising, as it affords a premium to market price for a control stakeholder."

    David Whiston, a senior equity analyst for Morningstar, said he was surprised the government didn't wait for a $33 a share price, but said investors likely were expecting an announcement following the quick AIG sale.

    "This helps with the ("government motors") stigma, but there will always be a few hard line consumers who will never forgive GM," he wrote in an email Wednesday. "That doesn't bother me, as GM still sells plenty of cars and has great product. Some taxpayers will be upset by the loss, but I think those people will never be happy about the situation. Even if the sale had happened at $33 (the IPO price) those same consumers would have criticized Obama and GM."

    The Canadian federal and Ontario governments which gave GM a separate $10 billion bailout still hold about 9 percent of GM's shares. Canadian officials said in Toronto they have no immediate plans to sell.

    The announcement comes exactly four years to the day that President George W. Bush announced he would rescue GM and Chrysler with a $17.4 billion bailout in December 2008 using the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program.

    Bush stepped in after Congress failed to act. He added $7.5 billion for GM and Chrysler's auto finance arms and President Obama added $60 billion to the $85 billion auto bailout.

    "The auto industry rescue helped save more than a million jobs during a severe economic crisis, but TARP was always meant to be a temporary, emergency program," Massad said.

    Last week, the Treasury exited another major TARP recipient AIG.

    GM stock is still trading far below its November 2010 initial public offering at $33 a share.

    The repurchase price of $27.50 per share represents a 7.9 percent premium. The share buyback is expected to close by the end of the year.

    The Treasury initially owned nearly 61 percent of GM as part of the bailout as it swapped about $42 billion of the loans for stock in the reorganized company after it exited bankruptcy in July 2009.

    The Obama administration forced GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy as a condition of getting additional government aid. The administration forced out GM CEO Rick Wagoner and forced a tie-up with Fiat SpA.

    The Treasury has said it expects to lose $24.3 billion on the $85 billion auto bailout.

    Treasury also holds a 74 percent stake in Ally Financial Inc., the Detroit-based auto lender, as part of a $17.2 billion bailout.

    Last year, the government exited Chrysler Group LLC and booked a $1.3 billion loss on its $12.5 billion bailout.

    The government had planned an initial public offering of Ally in 2011 but put it on hold because of market conditions. Any IPO won't occur until after Ally's troubled mortgage unit ResCap completes its bankruptcy restructuring.

    dshepardson@detnews.com


    From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2Fb9CHggE
    Stan b & Elvis

  9. #129
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Berlin, WI
    Posts
    10,698

    Default

    More------

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-1...-stake-50-loss
    For those of you who like you some charts and graphs, note the end of month dealer inventory chart!!!!
    Stan b & Elvis

  10. #130
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brookings, South Dakota
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    $.50 on the dollar??

    The taxpayer is getting screwed!!!

    Maybe some progressives can spin this union saving (votes and cash for Dems) bailout was good for US?????

    That's right folks, now that the election is over the treasury dept is dumping GM stock for $.50 on the original dollar.
    Losses in the BILLIONS for we the taxpayers that footed the bill.

    The article quotes a loss of $13 billion if the treasury sells ALL of their shares at the current price. I know you probably disagree, but say a million jobs are lost if the auto companies are not bailed out. Divide 13 billion by a million. That comes to $13,000. How long would it take safety net payments to add up to that per job lost?
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
    (Esprit's Power Play x Trumarc's Lean Cuisine)
    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
    (Clubmead's Road Warrior x Oakdale Whitewater Devil Dog)
    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
    (Two River's Lucky Willie x Moneybird's Black Magic Marker)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •