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Thread: Goobernment Motors

  1. #61
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Sarge and the other union lovers here need to pull your blinders off. I have been a member of 3 unions in my lifetime. (one was on a railroad in the south, don't know if that is as tough as working in an auto plant... but working in a railyard when it's 100 degrees is no cakewalk)

    Unions had their place back in the day... But, they are so rigid they will kill the industry their members are working in just to win the negotiations. It is ridiculous. You can't kill the Golden Goose, but unions have done it time after time... Then sit there blaming everyone else. See a theme here?
    Bill Davis

  2. #62
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Sarge and the other union lovers here need to pull your blinders off. I have been a member of 3 unions in my lifetime. (one was on a railroad in the south, don't know if that is as tough as working in an auto plant... but working in a railyard when it's 100 degrees is no cakewalk)

    Unions had their place back in the day... But, they are so rigid they will kill the industry their members are working in just to win the negotiations. It is ridiculous. You can't kill the Golden Goose, but unions have done it time after time... Then sit there blaming everyone else. See a theme here?
    Try walking into a plant at 105 degrees outside with no air conditioning and then work at a station on a plater unracking 80 pound bumpers with two other guys at a rate of eight every 90 seconds.(bars as they call them in the plant). The additional heat would generated by the plater would drive up the ambient temperature to the degree the devil would walk around in BVDs. Add to that the din of several lines of 80 ton presses stamping out body panels and parts dropping every 30 seconds. The plant was a dangerous place as well. There were a thousand opportunities to get killed every day from cranes dropping steel to getting hands crushed in a press. There was a summer worker in the plant that had just been accepted to the University of Michigan school of Medicine who had ambitions of being a surgeon. While working on the press line the safety equipment failed and he lost a hand in the process.

    Like everything in life, there are good unions and bad ones. I have turned down job offers because of the bad union representing the employees.

    I have been involved in contract negotiations several times. What you have to keep in mind is that you don't kill the golden goose. That is counter- productive. But, you try to get enough of the "eggs" so that your lowest pay grade is a living wage and your top pay grades are commensurate with the prevailing wage for that category of worker.

    Unions exist not only to negotiate contracts, but, to improve working conditions for their membership as well. The also serve as a conduit for conflict resolution.

    The UAW has been flexible in its contract negotiations in several of the past rounds. There is a two tier wage system where the newer employees are paid less. There have been other wage concessions and give backs.

    What so often happens in negotiations, is that the negotiating team approaches with a table of issues that employees have raised about working conditions. These are often the real sticking point in contract negotiations. As the negotiations wear on, these issues are not resolved. As a deadline approaches the employer will offer a wage package meets or exceeds the union's expectations in an effort to end it all. The union membership accepts the proposal. The employee concerns are unresolved. Everyone feels good for a short time before the same old same old sets in. Then you hear the union didn't get it done and the membership is right. But, then they voted to accept the contract.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 08-14-2012 at 09:25 AM.
    Sarge

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  3. #63
    Senior Member Raymond Little's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Try walking into a plant at 105 degrees outside with no air conditioning and then work at a station on a plater unracking 80 pound bumpers with two other guys at a rate of eight every 90 seconds.(bars as they call them in the plant). The additional heat would generated by the plater would drive up the ambient temperature to the degree the devil would walk around in BVDs. Add to that the din of several lines of 80 ton presses stamping out body panels and parts dropping every 30 seconds. The plant was a dangerous place as well. There were a thousand opportunities to get killed every day from cranes dropping steel to getting hands crushed in a press. There was a summer worker in the plant that had just been accepted to the University of Michigan school of Medicine who had ambitions of being a surgeon. While working on the press line the safety equipment failed and he lost a hand in the process.

    Like everything in life, there are good unions and bad ones. I have turned down job offers because of the bad union representing the employees.

    I have been involved in contract negotiations several times. What you have to keep in mind is that you don't kill the golden goose. That is counter- productive. But, you try to get enough of the "eggs" so that your lowest pay grade is a living wage and your top pay grades are commensurate with the prevailing wage for that category of worker.

    Unions exist not only to negotiate contracts, but, to improve working conditions for their membership as well. The also serve as a conduit for conflict resolution.

    The UAW has been flexible in its contract negotiations in several of the past rounds. There is a two tier wage system where the newer employees are paid less. There have been other wage concessions and give backs.

    What so often happens in negotiations, is that the negotiating team approaches with a table of issues that employees have raised about working conditions. These are often the real sticking point in contract negotiations. As the negotiations wear on, these issues are not resolved. As a deadline approaches the employer will offer a wage package meets or exceeds the union's expectations in an effort to end it all. The union membership accepts the proposal. The employee concerns are unresolved. Everyone feels good for a short time before the same old same old sets in. Then you hear the union didn't get it done and the membership is right. But, then they voted to accept the contract.
    So, who's the "Golden Goose" that Public Sector Unions get to negotiate with???
    Just Win

  4. #64
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Little View Post
    So, who's the "Golden Goose" that Public Sector Unions get to negotiate with???
    Bend over
    Bill Davis

  5. #65
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    I'm sure DA UNION workers work way harder than I ever dreamed of!!
    God bless their hearts.

    But the issue is the fact that GM was BANKRUPT!!
    (JDogger told me to stay OT!)
    The Federal Govt. decided to chose them to bail out.
    (DA UNION)
    We were told what a grreat investment this was.
    We are losing $25 Billion+.

    We are being told what a huge success this all is.

    Is this the NEW math??
    Or is this Obama's vision??

    Just sayin'.........
    Last edited by road kill; 08-14-2012 at 02:05 PM.
    Stan b & Elvis

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    I'm sure DA UNION workers work way harder than I ever dreamed of!!
    God bless their hearts.

    But the issue is the fact that GM was BANKRUPT!!
    (JDogger told me to stay OT!)
    The Federal Govt. decided to chose them to bail out.
    (DA UNION)
    We were told what a grreat investment this was.
    We are losing $25 Billion+.

    We are being told what a huge success this all is.

    Is this the NEW math??
    Or is this Obama's vision??

    Just sayin'.........
    And I'm sure it was all about the Union and had nothing to do with 30 execs making up to $15 million a year while managing the company into the ground, that's brilliant. When you have 20 people at GM making more money than the CEO at Toyota makes your going to run your company into the ground, but lets blame the working class instead of the elite, God knows the elite were not part of the problem.

  7. #67
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    And I'm sure it was all about the Union and had nothing to do with 30 execs making up to $15 million a year while managing the company into the ground, that's brilliant. When you have 20 people at GM making more money than the CEO at Toyota makes your going to run your company into the ground, but lets blame the working class instead of the elite, God knows the elite were not part of the problem.
    So you are saying Obama bailed out the Sr. Execs??
    And that makes it OK??


    All righty then...........
    Stan b & Elvis

  8. #68
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    BINGO!!!!!!!!! That is exactly the republicans strategy. The massive debt is because of welfare and foodstamps and has nothing to do with the billions that are distributed every day to companies that are not in need. Lets not increase taxes on the rich, lets tax the poor more. Lets blame Obama for this economy, not Bush. Etc.

  9. #69
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Obama did it to save jobs. Don't twist it Stan....you are a working man like all the rest of us...if anyone should get it you should.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    So you are saying Obama bailed out the Sr. Execs??
    And that makes it OK??


    All righty then...........
    I'm saying over a course of less than two years Obama, Bush and both parties gave about a Trillion dollars of the tax payers money to businesses that had been run into to the ground by they're moron friends, then those morons divided of Billions of dollars to be given away as bonuses to the same execs who managed them into the ground. Then we blame the union for corrupting America. Great logic.

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