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Thread: Police: SC woman kills dog because it chewed Bible

  1. #21
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    The dogs that I have seen who were "mean" that I had personal experience with were Pointers, Chows and German Shepherds. And one Hound Shepherd mix. I have never had any experience with Pits. My thoughts are that some of the bad things are inherited but some are more the owner's fault. I think that is true of most breeds. As I have said before we raised and bred Chihuahuas for 20 plus years and what I have just said holds true for that breed. We tried to pick our breeding stock always from mild mannered chihuahuas. Puppy buyers have a lot to do with how a dog turns out. We have had people show up out of the blue with their grown chihuahua that they had bought from another breeder. They wanted us to tell them what was wrong with their adult chihuahua who would bite even the owner and their own family. Most were spoiled rotten but some just inherited a lot of bad traits. Some of course were both. I must confess that we did sell one chi who grew up to bite the man of the house when he attempted to spank one of the children in the family. Now, I have to brag on the few pointers that we owned........never had one who bit anyone.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    Marvin, it is stuff like this that makes life's memories so valuable. Chris
    Isn't that the truth? This was SD's premier Engineering school. 400 students started the year, 200 survived. Of our original 200 beanie wearers only 50 were in school the 3rd year. I went to a country school in SD, both of my classmates also became Engineers, one of which was a PHD in Geological Engineering. They were also better students than I, as witnessed by their GP.

    But it is life's memories that mean a lot. I took my wife with me to our 55th HS reunion, all 12 of us were still alive at the time. Our little school had 75 students my senior year, & I was the guy who made sure there was no bullying, played a little sports & generally bedeviled the teachers. Also didn't date any of the locals, which kept the pressure off. As my wife said "It's like a family reunion, no cliques, no phoniness, & everyone is genuinely friendly". She had gone to a 2K size HS with 600 in her graduating class. Still miss the genuineness of the people back there, just hard to make ends meet in that environment.
    __________________________

    Marvin S

    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
    There's nothing wrong with pit bulls as a breed. There are just bad owners and bad breeders.
    While what this woman did is totally wrong, and I hope she is punished to the full extent of the law, Pitbulls are an extremely dangerous breed of dog.
    Last summer a friend of mine was on his bike with his Lab in tow on leash. As they approached the neighborhood park, his lab was attacked by 3 pitbulls who had escaped their yard on the corner house next to the park. Randy, being a pretty big guy was able to fight off the three pitbulls before his dog was killed. The Pit's did do several hundred dollars and many stitches of damage to the lab, and no doubt would have killed him if left alone.
    What is wrong with the Pti Bull breed is that they have been bred to kill. And it has been proven so many times it's not even worth repeating anymore. Is it the dog's fault? Of course not. These dogs were bred to kill. And they are good at it. Just as just about any lab is capable of retrieving a thrown object, I'm afraid most Pitbulls retain the instinct to kill. There is a place in this world for Pit Bulls. I've heard they are good on Boar and Bear. But really, a family pet and guardian is no place for a Pit Bull.

  4. #24
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newlab View Post
    While what this woman did is totally wrong, and I hope she is punished to the full extent of the law, Pitbulls are an extremely dangerous breed of dog.
    Last summer a friend of mine was on his bike with his Lab in tow on leash. As they approached the neighborhood park, his lab was attacked by 3 pitbulls who had escaped their yard on the corner house next to the park. Randy, being a pretty big guy was able to fight off the three pitbulls before his dog was killed. The Pit's did do several hundred dollars and many stitches of damage to the lab, and no doubt would have killed him if left alone.
    What is wrong with the Pti Bull breed is that they have been bred to kill. And it has been proven so many times it's not even worth repeating anymore. Is it the dog's fault? Of course not. These dogs were bred to kill. And they are good at it. Just as just about any lab is capable of retrieving a thrown object, I'm afraid most Pitbulls retain the instinct to kill. There is a place in this world for Pit Bulls. I've heard they are good on Boar and Bear. But really, a family pet and guardian is no place for a Pit Bull.
    Well said.
    I compare breaking to attacking.
    Both situations a dog has been trained and conditioned to refrain from exercising their instincts. We all have seen even the best labs break on the line. When a pit-bull "breaks".....well, we hear about it on the news.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuckyDuck View Post
    I don't think it is quite that black and white. You may find this study interesting:

    http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Atta...%20Clifton.pdf

    Although there are certainly very nice pit bulls that are very calm, the data does show that there are inherent problems with the breed. Certainly bad owners and bad breeders add to the problem, but if you look at the facts the number of serious dog attacks causing death or permanent disfigurement are overwhelmingly in the camp of pit bulls, rottweilers, and presa canarios, and of the three pit bulls are responsible for another disproportionate share. These breeds are able to cause much more harm. If a collie, poodle, or other breed has a bad moment they snap and bite, but don't maul. The potential damage from a pit bull is off the scale. And when you take the population of the breed into account - something less than 1% of all dogs, the numbers scream even louder.

    Again, there are bad breeders and owners, but looking at the numbers it is difficult to argue that all these very serious attacks are the result of the owner/breeder. In fact, the author found that in 2/3 of the cases, the death or disfigurement of the human was the first time the dog ever showed an aggressive attitude, so it is not just dogs bred to be mean or to fight.

    The "its the owners, not the breed" mentality is shared by many, but it is only fueled by emotion, there are no facts to back it up whereas the facts in the link tell a pretty convincing story. I know several pit bulls and I really like the dogs, but as I told my sister in law, with grandchildren around, why on earth would you take this risk based on the data? Children poke and grab ears and pull tail, its what kids do, and that is a bad combination with certain breeds.
    You are correct. Nothing is black and white. However, that does not mean there are “inherent problems with the breed.” Even the article you cite does not take several factors into consideration, like where the majority of these dogs came from, how they were bred, and how they were raised.

    Good breeders breed for temperament as well as ability. From what I have seen, the vast majority of pit bulls are inner-city type dogs either bred to fight or from fighting stock. A large number of the people that own them are looking for a “tough” dog for protection or for a dog that will give them a tough image. Most of these people are not going to a reputable breeder to buy a well bred dog. They get them from some backyard breeder that has no breeding plan or any idea how to breed. Or, they get the pup from someone that is breeding dogs to fight, has more puppies than they can sell, and gives some of them away just to get rid of them. These breeders are not breeding with the dog’s temperament in mind. These dogs may have been bred from pit bull stock, but they are eccentrically mutts.

    Also, every breed is not suitable for everyone. You have to understand the characteristics of the breed you own. I used to own and breed Chow Chows. I love them. I would have to say they are my favorite breed. However, it is not a breed I would recommend to everyone. Even though you don’t see that many of them, they are always high on the dog biting list. Yet, mine never bit me or anyone else. That is because I understood the breed and understood the personalities my dogs. I knew they had to be socialized much better than most breeds. I understood the triggers that could cause them to feel the need to bite, and kept them out of those situations. That is all part of being a responsible owner. That being said, I would trust a child around a well bred pit bull before I would trust it around a well bred Chow Chow.

    I find it interesting that the argument against pit bulls is very similar the rationale used against hand guns by the anti-gun crowd. They say hand guns are dangerous, and should be banned. They are dangerous when in the hands of criminals, those that don’t understand how to safely handle them, those that don’t respect them, and of course, the terminally stupid. But, what is our first response to those critics, “It’s not the gun. It’s the person with the gun.” The same is true for pit bulls and some other dog breeds. Not everyone should own one.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    You can train a beagle to retrieve and it can do a good job...but one day, a rabbit is going to run past it and instincts are going to take over...

    What are pit bulls instincts telling it to do?
    It's not telling them to attack and kill people. That is not what the breed was bred to do.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Having owned & helped my wife run a large boarding kennel for 20 years I have reached this fact filled conclusion: There are few bad dogs but there are many owners that should be locked up!!!!!!!!

    Pits are not a big problem , but all to often are owned by some one not playing with a full deck. At the kennel our biggest issue was with the Rottweiler owners, some pathetically poorly cared for & ill mannered dogs. Most were told to make other arrangements for their next outing, we did not want to deal with their issues. You could recognize the dogs that would be an issue as soon as the owner stepped out of their vehicle .

    But a long time OB trainer told me, watch the Samoyeds, Chows, & Saints, they'll take you without a show of emotion.

    With the resources today anyone who abuses any animal deserves prosecution to the full extent of the law. Unfortunately for the taxpayers, but for many of them, jail is a better set of living conditions than they ever created for themselves. Possibly the best punishment would be for those who abuse dogs to receive the same treatment themselves!!!!

    When I was in college & as it was small we got a lot of attention, the English Department took it upon themselves to get me to upgrade the quality of books I read, for which I will be forever grateful. The Head of the Dept loaned me an irreplaceable classic, which my pet proceeded to chew the corner off of. When I presented the evidence to him, his only comment "I hope you digested as much of the book as the dog".
    Marvin,

    I agree. It is usually the owner. Of course, there are always going to be some dogs that are mentally unstable, but those are the exception rather than the rule.

    I do have to disagree with your trainer friend. Like I said, I used to own and raise Chows. They are a very quiet, stoic breed. However, there are always signs when they are agitated over a situation, and likely to bite. You just have to know what you are looking for and be able to recognize them when they present themselves. I have to assume Samoyeds & Saints are similar.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
    However, there are always signs when they are agitated over a situation, and likely to bite. You just have to know what you are looking for and be able to recognize them when they present themselves.
    No matter what breed you are talking about anyone that knows how to read dogs should be able to recognize the warnings.
    Unfortunately most people do not know how to read a dog and base their actions toward a dog strictly based upon the dog's breed.
    As a member of a really old AKC ob club I teach a class that while not beginner level tends to be full of JQ public rather than club members.
    If a person has their dog in my level (3rd one not counting puppy) they are making a decent attempt to train their dog.
    The biggest issues I see are:
    1. Spoiled little dogs.
    2. Owners that are nervous because their dog has warned another off, most likely justified and the owner is nervous and that stresses the dog.
    3. Owners that think they can show up once a week to class and have a great well mannered dog.

    Besides just "bad" owners there are also alot of owners that while they have good intentions they will not see nor admit their dog's issues or shortcomings. Huge issue with small dog owners. Just ask my old lady Shadow who got charged by a Terrorist small dog the other day at the club from the other ring.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  9. #29
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    I had a GR that was incredibly possesive.
    Dude bit me once when I pulled a rooster out of his mouth.

    Those GR's are mean dogs!!!



    Just saiyn'...........


    RK
    Stan b & Elvis

  10. #30
    Senior Member Jason Glavich's Avatar
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    I used to have a pamphlet that was picked up in a packet somewhere call "All dogs bite...Because they don't have hands" It had alot of good info about dog behavior and the signs of a dog about to bite and also explaining that dogs bite for more reasons then anger. I have worked with some pits, I do not mind them, I have been chased by a few as well. But I do not wanna say the whole breed is bad, I have been bit by several dogs never once by a pit though. Mine are min pin, collie, GR, and a little fluffy dog.
    Last edited by Jason Glavich; 01-28-2011 at 11:38 AM.
    My Father,My Friend,My teacher,and now My Angel~ 04/21/1956-03/21/2011 You will always be missed. I hope to learn half of the stuff you knew.

    ~Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted~

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