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Question about Force Fetch

4K views 13 replies 10 participants last post by  Evan 
#1 ·
I am in the process of Forcing a 6 mo old pup.
He has all his teeth and marks very well.

Question: During force fetch I have 4-6 sessions a day.
During those sessions about how many ear pinches does the
normal dog require. VS How many free training fetch,hold,drop
commands?

I will be away from the board for the day but any information
would be very appreciated.

Thanks
 
#2 ·
IMO..... 4-6 sessions is a lot........ and there is no magic number for ear pinching....... If your pup can have success with one or two..... I'd hang it up and come back later. With my dog, I did two sessions a day. Morning and nite. As the dog figures it out ....move on to the next step, from a lower position, the ground, walking, etc. You can always go back a step or two, but I would seriously avoid over pressuring the dog. Resentment is a bitch......LOL
 
#5 ·
good post Evan: Tarball i would suggest that you pay very close attention to, "balanced training program" in Evan's post. There are very few 6 months old pups that can handle that many FF sessions in one day. Maintain attitude at all costs, it will give your pup his best chance to become the hunter/competitor you want.
good luck
GG
 
#6 ·
Not a dumb question at all. While there are no formulas, a good average is 10-15 minutes per session. But read the dog. Sometimes a session will be much shorter. Read your dog, and maintain balance. A student that is engaged and not overly surpressed will tend to be more open to growth.

Evan
 
#7 ·
Depends on the dog. My last pup could only learn for 10-15 min @ most. Her big sister could go 20min. Read the dog and while progress is being made and attitude positive continue on. When things slow down it is time to quit. Mabe throw a fun bumper for attitude help.
 
#10 ·
Depends on the dog. My last pup could only learn for 10-15 min @ most. Her big sister could go 20min.
The question, especially for a newer trainer, is not how long the dog can go, but rather how long they should go.

Also, there is often a discussion of FF being "a lot of pressure". That's totally relative. Generally, it should not be a great deal of actual pressure, and often is very little. That's up to the dog. But even with little pressure, this is rarely a lot of fun for the dog. Take your time, and conduct multiple shorter sessions.

Evan
 
#8 ·
with a 6 month old, 1 session per day is all you should do. that is alot of pressure on a dog and you dont want to put to much on a young pup. the dog will tell you when it has had enough but usually 5-10 minutes is plenty. its not the amount of time each session but rather getting into a regular daily routine that will teach the dog FF.
 
#12 ·
Tarball
Read Evan's post carfully and if you missed that one check GG's
I just finished FF on my Sam a few weeks back and she has it down. I was doing 3x per day ( about 10 minutes per session) and found that was to much for her. Cut back to 1x - 2x times per day and she did better. After about 4-5 weeks she started to cop an attitude and so I layed off for a week at the suggestion of my Pro trainer and she came back strong. Keep it fun for both of you. Balance is important as you will see. Thanks for bringing up the topic. It's one I always follow. Duckdon
 
#13 ·
Thanks to all who responded. This is my fourth dog to Force, but the youngest. Today the FF is so much more than fetch and hold. It really is preparation for Collar Conditioning. ie stick fetch, collar fetch. The short ......one week program I had followed in the past was for older dogs (1 year) and was pre collar.........It actually worked very well, but was really basic ..."Grab that bumper before the ear pinch or toe hitch"

My actual question really was........."how many pinches vs how many freebees" I guess the answer is that it is relative to age and success. I have the time these days and have fun heeling,here,sit......etc along with hold and now force........several times a day.

Pressure......we all need to be careful with it. My pocket also has lots of little treats.

Thanks again Please resume the discussion.
 
#14 ·
My actual question really was........."how many pinches vs how many freebees" I guess the answer is that it is relative to age and success.
Not really. There is no formula, but there is a sound procedure. In the early going there is pressure every time there is a command to fetch. This is a pressure conditioning process. The number of fetches, and how long a session should last are more a matter of reading the dog.

Be careful of free-bee's, especially too early in the process. We're sometimes inclined toward testing out work when we are still in the conditioning phase. You're conditioning your dog to turn off pressure through compliance. If there is no pressure, what's his motivation?

Only when you have a strong reliable response going to you back out of pressure, and no altogether. You still have other stimuli to work through.

Evan
 
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