Bingo!!!

[BrianW]

Dnf - have you noticed that the things you hold up as the ideals coincidentally have declined as the "nanny state" grew?
That as we threw more and more federal dollars and give up more and more control to the "depts of" the results got worse & worse?

For instance, just sticking to education - the President failed to mention that the school in Denver CO, Bruce Randolph School, that he held up as doing so well, with the 97% senior grad rate, operates autonomously from the DPS district. http://randolph.dpsk12.org/about.asp#history This started in 2007, the 3 year period that PBO referred to, and now look at what it's doing. So if "That’s what good schools can do, and we want good schools all across the country." why would we want increased federal command & control?
But isn't that what "Race to the Top" is?
“If you show us the most innovative plans to improve teacher quality and student achievement, (and if it meets with our agenda and the teacher's unions approval) we’ll show you the money.”

And if "the question is whether all of us –- as citizens, and as parents –- are willing to do what’s necessary to give every child a chance to succeed. That responsibility begins not in our classrooms, but in our homes and communities. It’s family that first instills the love of learning in a child." it makes little sense why the President and the Democratic Congress cut funding for the DC Opportunity Scholarship Program (OSP), when the Evaluation of the DC Opportunity Scholarship Program: Impacts After One Year, (emphasis mine) concluded that "The program had a consistently positive impact on parent satisfaction and their perceptions of school safety".

We don't want to throw out the baby, but the bathwater that they are immersed in is SO polluted with all the "accessory education" that has been mandated by boards, associations etc that there is no time for the kids to learn the basics.
What good is emphasizing science & technology if the kids can't read the books because they're too busy learning about how "Johnny has two daddys" ?

You question "anti govt hatred" and where it stops but you DON"T question love of bad govt.
That's where it stops, imo.

[mjh345]

Dnf - have you noticed that the things you hold up as the ideals coincidentally have declined as the "nanny state" grew?
That as we threw more and more federal dollars and give up more and more control to the "depts of" the results got worse & worse?

For instance, just sticking to education - the President failed to mention that the school in Denver CO, Bruce Randolph School, that he held up as doing so well, with the 97% senior grad rate, operates autonomously from the DPS district. http://randolph.dpsk12.org/about.asp#history This started in 2007, the 3 year period that PBO referred to, and now look at what it's doing. So if "That’s what good schools can do, and we want good schools all across the country." why would we want increased federal command & control?
But isn't that what "Race to the Top" is?
“If you show us the most innovative plans to improve teacher quality and student achievement, (and if it meets with our agenda and the teacher's unions approval) we’ll show you the money.”

And if "the question is whether all of us –- as citizens, and as parents –- are willing to do what’s necessary to give every child a chance to succeed. That responsibility begins not in our classrooms, but in our homes and communities. It’s family that first instills the love of learning in a child." it makes little sense why the President and the Democratic Congress cut funding for the DC Opportunity Scholarship Program (OSP), when the Evaluation of the DC Opportunity Scholarship Program: Impacts After One Year, (emphasis mine) concluded that "The program had a consistently positive impact on parent satisfaction and their perceptions of school safety".

We don't want to throw out the baby, but the bathwater that they are immersed in is SO polluted with all the "accessory education" that has been mandated by boards, associations etc that there is no time for the kids to learn the basics.
What good is emphasizing science & technology if the kids can't read the books because they're too busy learning about how "Johnny has two daddys" ?

You question "anti govt hatred" and where it stops but you DON"T question love of bad govt.
That's where it stops, imo.

Well said!!

[Marvin S]

Dnf - have you noticed that the things you hold up as the ideals coincidentally have declined as the "nanny state" grew?
That as we threw more and more federal dollars and give up more and more control to the "depts of" the results got worse & worse?

For instance, just sticking to education - the President failed to mention that the school in Denver CO, Bruce Randolph School, that he held up as doing so well, with the 97% senior grad rate, operates autonomously from the DPS district. http://randolph.dpsk12.org/about.asp#history This started in 2007, the 3 year period that PBO referred to, and now look at what it's doing. So if "That’s what good schools can do, and we want good schools all across the country." why would we want increased federal command & control?
But isn't that what "Race to the Top" is?
“If you show us the most innovative plans to improve teacher quality and student achievement, (and if it meets with our agenda and the teacher's unions approval) we’ll show you the money.”

And if "the question is whether all of us –- as citizens, and as parents –- are willing to do what’s necessary to give every child a chance to succeed. That responsibility begins not in our classrooms, but in our homes and communities. It’s family that first instills the love of learning in a child." it makes little sense why the President and the Democratic Congress cut funding for the DC Opportunity Scholarship Program (OSP), when the Evaluation of the DC Opportunity Scholarship Program: Impacts After One Year, (emphasis mine) concluded that "The program had a consistently positive impact on parent satisfaction and their perceptions of school safety".

We don't want to throw out the baby, but the bathwater that they are immersed in is SO polluted with all the "accessory education" that has been mandated by boards, associations etc that there is no time for the kids to learn the basics.
What good is emphasizing science & technology if the kids can't read the books because they're too busy learning about how "Johnny has two daddys" ?

You question "anti govt hatred" and where it stops but you DON"T question love of bad govt.
That's where it stops, imo.

As usual, Brian makes a lot of sense!!!!!!!!!

The Seattle Times had an article on the opinion page talking about the nanny state programs & how they had not gone the direction nor obtained the results originally presented (I would have used intended, but all too often the result is what was intended, even bad results). It also brought up Moynihan's comment about what would happen & the usual crowd piling on & calling him "RACIST". He failed to stand up top that so you see the mess today. Who wrote the article "a black school activist from South Seattle", not your usual critic, but I'm not surprised as I believe some in that demographic are beginning to understand the issue.

Because parents suck. And that makes their kids suck. And they make it tough on the rest of the kids.

I've read this multiple times - what are you specifically trying to say!!!!!

[M&K's Retrievers]

I agree with stopping the uncontrolled spending.

I agree that education is of paramount importance.

Have been in the school systems of several states, both as a student and parent, I have seen huge disparities. There must be some unifying set of standards that states must be held to. Not everyone can afford private schools, and for years, the USA provided free pubic education that turned out some of the most innovative, successful scientists, entrepreneurs, businessmen, engineers...in the world! Why can't we figure out how to get back to those goals...rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater?

Many of the problems that republicans identify....the dems agree with. The difference is that dems do tend to spend more (notwithstanding record deficit spending under the republicans last decade) and republicans (also tend to spend trillions) but seem to harbor that anti-gov't hatred, and want to abolish all forms of federal government except the military.

What if they get their way? Abolish the depts of Ed, Energy, IRS, Interior, EPA, FDA....That would be a good start!!

Will it stop? or will then the answer to be abolish all state gov'ts? "only local gov't can function!!" Then do away with county, local, school board...oh they're already gone.

Hey, total anarchy with rednecks and shotguns in the front yard, homeschooling their kids by having them watch tivo'd Sarah Palin's Alaska and Glen Beck's chalk-talks?

Ok, I admit I got a little carried away.....but really, WHERE DOES ANTI-GOV'T HATRED STOP?

Why don't we let the Feds run the military and the US Postal Service?

[duckheads]

I'll second that well said Brian. My wife and I deal with this every day. It's not about teaching the kids any more. Now our new superintendant thinks technology is the answer to everything. Smart boards in every class room. Ipads so the kids can play educational games. My wife and I believe kids are already to dependant on technology. 40% of the kids in our district are on free or reduced lunch yet they all have cell phones with internet. How about the teachers get out from behind their damn desks and teach my kids reading, writing, and arithmetic. Breast cancer awareness week, autism awareness week. Every month there is some awareness week. How about learning to work hard? how about teaching kids how to take notes in class so they are ready for college?

[ducknwork]

Have been in the school systems of several states, both as a student and parent, I have seen huge disparities. There must be some unifying set of standards that states must be held to. Not everyone can afford private schools, and for years, the USA provided free pubic education that turned out some of the most innovative, successful scientists, entrepreneurs, businessmen, engineers...in the world! Why can't we figure out how to get back to those goals...rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater?

I've read this multiple times - what are you specifically trying to say!!!!!

Read dnf's paragraph above, especially the bold portion. You know what the difference was (IMO) between the times dnf is referring to and the current time period that he is complaining about? I firmly believe that parents used to give a damn about their children, expected them to do well, expected them to behave and learn, and actually did something about it when the kids didn't do what they were supposed to. NOW, too many parents do not take an active role in their child's life. When something goes wrong in school, it's always someone else's fault, not the kid that won't listen and really needs his tail whipped for acting like an idiot rather than learning. Basically, it doesn't matter if we get back to the goals dnf mentioned, because if parents don't give a damn, kids won't meet the goals...so, we'll just lower the goals until everyone can meet them and have a warm fuzzy feeling about themselves.