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Thread: New health care is good economics

  1. #11
    Senior Member BrianW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinner View Post
    I understand that only part of the bill was "found" uncosnstitunal. You might want to check that out.
    Really? Only one part? YOU might want to check that out. http://www.healthcarelawyerblog.com/...s_ppaca_u.html

    A federal district court judge in Pensacola, Florida dealt the controversial Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) another blow today by holding the entire Act to be void because a key provision - the individual mandate - does not pass constitutional muster.

    And if "your" state wants to move ahead on HCR, implementation of PPACA, that's fine by me.
    But as of right now, from a constitutional basis, there's no requirement to do so. It's not my "bias" it's well established legal precedent. Otherwise PBO's Justice Dept wouldn't have to request "clarification of the judge's ruling", ie an order to for states to continue implementation during the appeals process.
    Also, through nullification, the state(s) can refuse to enforce the law even if the SCOTUS rules in the Admin's favor. IE, medical marijuana.
    And I hope Idaho does just that, if it comes down to it.

    Also you can research more about the Colorado Trust @ www.coloradotrust.org rather than "shoot" from your biasis opinion on every thing!
    No, I don't need to look at your ref'd website to know that "expert projections' are only right on one thing,
    - that they are consistently wrong!
    Ie, today headlines that contrary to "forecasts" the 4th quarter GDP was only + 2.8% as opposed to "estimates" of 3.2. When you're talking B's of $'s, that's a huge amount.
    How many times have we heard "Unemployment unexpectedly rose to ... " or "Despite previous growth indicators/forecasts the "X" quarter "Y" market fell "Z" % ..."
    That's fine, trust your sources.


    BTW, please don't clutter the O-care issue by dragging DU into this. That's a whole 'nother issue by itself.
    "It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
    Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
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  2. #12
    Senior Member sinner's Avatar
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    "BTW, please don't clutter the O-care issue by dragging DU into this. That's a whole 'nother issue by itself."
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    Just a comparison to demonstrate a mind set.
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    Lasting memories Vinny was 13+ years old!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinner View Post
    I understand that only part of the bill was "found" uncosnstitunal. You might want to check that out. Also you can research more about the Colorado Trust @ www.coloradotrust.org rather than "shoot" from your biasis opinion on every thing!
    Sinner, if you are not "one of them" you will get attacked. The right --ies agree only on their points of views. If you do not agree with them you are wrong period.

  4. #14
    Senior Member sinner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    Sinner, if you are not "one of them" you will get attacked. The right --ies agree only on their points of views. If you do not agree with them you are wrong period.
    Amen!
    I apprecate a "closed mind". I live among 'em in Colorado Springs but I do like to agitate them.
    Last edited by sinner; 02-26-2011 at 02:28 PM. Reason: missed a period
    This is what he was all about!:
    Vinny last hunting year
    53 pheasants in South Dakota 200 + ducks in Idaho
    Lasting memories Vinny was 13+ years old!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinner View Post
    Amen!
    I aprecate a "closed mind". I live among 'em in Colorado Springs but I do like to agitate them.
    Uh Oh, looks like I have competition.

  6. #16
    Senior Member BrianW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinner View Post
    I apprecate a "closed mind".
    Then I guess you appreciate the Founder's "closed minds" as well, as to the "effect" of an unconstitutional law.
    "There is no position which depends on clearer principles, than that every act of a delegated authority contrary to the tenor of the commission under which it it exercised is void.
    NO legislative act, therefore, contrary to the Constitution is valid. "
    Alexander Hamilton, Federalist #78

    Federal actions taken outside the scope of federal power are not laws, they are acts of usurpation. In other words, an unconstitutional federal “law” is no law at all, and the states and their people are not bound to obey them.

    Have fun down there with your O-care, or "CO-care" as the case may be.
    "It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
    Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
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    Proud partner of (HR) WR SR Brian's 44Magnum Monster
    co-owned by HR Rianne's 2nd Chance Hurricane Rebel

  7. #17
    Senior Member BrianW's Avatar
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    The town hall/Tea Party event I attended yesterday AM was with local State Representatives/Senators, as opposed to Congressional, but I heard a lot of good info about what's happening in Boise this session.

    For instance, the Legislature is trying to pass "Any Willing Provider" legislation that would end managed care organizations (MCO) practice "to selectively contract with only those providers necessary to enable the organization to provide patients with adequate access to services, and quality, cost-effective health care."

    This proposal would also require health care providers such as hospitals to fully disclose the cost of procedures before the service(s) is provided.

    For example that Dr. "D" has privileges at "ABC Medical Center" & "XYZ Hospital" and gets the same fee. Both are rated as high quality facilities and XYZ actually has a lower incidence rate of cross infection mainly since it's a smaller hospital. A colonoscopy costs say $4400 at ABC but XXZ charges only $1100. However, Brian's MCO, Blue Cross of ID, has selected ABC as it's sole in-network provider. At an 80/20, Brian will pay $880 out of pocket for his procedure as opposed to $220 if it were done at XYZ, (after meeting the annual deductible).
    Yes, Brian still has his "freedom of choice" and cam elect to go to XYZ but at a higher cost

    This is the kind of HCR & "good economics" I "think" we need.
    What say you, Grandpa et al?
    "It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
    Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    ________________________________________
    Proud partner of (HR) WR SR Brian's 44Magnum Monster
    co-owned by HR Rianne's 2nd Chance Hurricane Rebel

  8. #18
    Senior Member sinner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    The town hall/Tea Party event I attended yesterday AM was with local State Representatives/Senators, as opposed to Congressional, but I heard a lot of good info about what's happening in Boise this session.

    For instance, the Legislature is trying to pass "Any Willing Provider" legislation that would end managed care organizations (MCO) practice "to selectively contract with only those providers necessary to enable the organization to provide patients with adequate access to services, and quality, cost-effective health care."

    This proposal would also require health care providers such as hospitals to fully disclose the cost of procedures before the service(s) is provided.

    For example that Dr. "D" has privileges at "ABC Medical Center" & "XYZ Hospital" and gets the same fee. Both are rated as high quality facilities and XYZ actually has a lower incidence rate of cross infection mainly since it's a smaller hospital. A colonoscopy costs say $4400 at ABC but XXZ charges only $1100. However, Brian's MCO, Blue Cross of ID, has selected ABC as it's sole in-network provider. At an 80/20, Brian will pay $880 out of pocket for his procedure as opposed to $220 if it were done at XYZ, (after meeting the annual deductible).
    Yes, Brian still has his "freedom of choice" and cam elect to go to XYZ but at a higher cost

    This is the kind of HCR & "good economics" I "think" we need.
    What say you, Grandpa et al?
    Well this Obama care is creating change in the health care system which is badly need. It will occur slowly but as I suggested sometime ago it must change. When the cost of health care is greater than our GNP we all lose.
    I hope Idaho can reach a model or for that matter any state can develop a new model that will impove our health care system.
    For your information a friend of mine in Pocatello just got his bill for a heart value replacement $145,000. He is very thankful for Medicare!
    Here is a question that I have debated with my right wing friends: The fact that if you don't have health care insurance you face imprisonment or a fine. How is that different that if you don't have auto insurance you face the same results at least here in Coloraado?
    This is what he was all about!:
    Vinny last hunting year
    53 pheasants in South Dakota 200 + ducks in Idaho
    Lasting memories Vinny was 13+ years old!

  9. #19
    Senior Member TxHillHunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinner View Post
    Well this Obama care is creating change in the health care system which is badly need. It will occur slowly but as I suggested sometime ago it must change. When the cost of health care is greater than our GNP we all lose.
    I hope Idaho can reach a model or for that matter any state can develop a new model that will impove our health care system.
    For your information a friend of mine in Pocatello just got his bill for a heart value replacement $145,000. He is very thankful for Medicare!
    Here is a question that I have debated with my right wing friends: The fact that if you don't have health care insurance you face imprisonment or a fine. How is that different that if you don't have auto insurance you face the same results at least here in Coloraado?
    Simple, there is no government requirement to own a vehicle as a taxpayer and it's a STATE law that requires car insurance - likely not against the constitution of the state of Colorado.

    OTOH - Obamacare is a FEDERAL requirement, and if you pay taxes (are here legally and breathe) and choose not to purchase insurance, you will pay a fine....and that' is what the judge has found unconstitutional.

  10. #20
    Senior Member BrianW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinner View Post
    For your information a friend of mine in Pocatello just got his bill for a heart value replacement $145,000. He is very thankful for Medicare!
    I think you meant "valve". Whatever. I''m sure he is thanful, but how much of that total might be reduced in the future, if true "reform" had addressed some of the very real issues of malpractice insurance/tort awards reform that O-care ignores? PBO "promises to cut waste & fraud in Medicare, but he also "promised" to follow the Debt Commission recommendations, that HE appointed
    And we see how well that's going.
    So if Medicare worked so well for your Pocatello friend, why do we need a whole new federal health bureaucracy, with all it's resultant administrative costs and delegation of authority to an unelected (and therefore unaccountable) SecHHS? Why not just tweak Medicare?
    Anwer: Because O-care is about power and federal control over the most private part of your life - your health!
    "Ask not, what your country can do for you..." but rather, what will it do TO you!
    Here is a question that ... (t)he fact that if you don't have health care insurance you face imprisonment or a fine. How is that different that if you don't have auto insurance you face the same results at least here in Coloraado?
    Because it's NOT the Federal government's charter!
    The rights not delegated to the United States (read the Federal government)... are reserved to the States and to the people through the 10th Amendment. That is what the judge is saying in the lawsuits by the several States, that PBO & the Congress don't have the constitutional authority to force you to buy insurance by threat of fines/prison.
    If CO wants to pass an "individual mandate" , woo hoo, you guys go for it!
    Enjoy your CO-care!!!
    Anybody that doesn't like it is free to "opt out" and move to ID or some other state.
    "It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
    Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    ________________________________________
    Proud partner of (HR) WR SR Brian's 44Magnum Monster
    co-owned by HR Rianne's 2nd Chance Hurricane Rebel

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