Should The Rich Pay More Taxes?
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Thread: Should The Rich Pay More Taxes?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Mar 2005
    Grantville GA

    Default Should The Rich Pay More Taxes?

    I thought about the ignorance related to gun control and then thought it pales in comparison to the ignorance related to the rich paying more taxes. The ignorance about gun laws is nothing compared to the continued idea in Washington that government (& more government regulations) is the answer to any of our current problems. The only answer is less government, lower taxes, lower spending, no nat'l debt and a balanced budget mandated by law.

    Everytime I here the idea that we have to stop giving tax breaks to the wealthy I cringe. Because in the next breath some politician says we have to create more jobs. The obvious question is, who creates jobs? Not the government (even for all its bailouts & stimuluses). It's the private sector and its not those who work for a wage. It's the business owners & the entrepreneurs. The top 10% of those taxed already pay 90%+ of the taxes. Asking them to pay more? The direct effect of those "fat cats" paying more taxes is jobs lost.

    I'll give my personal example. I owned a successful aerospace design & manufacturing company that was started by myself & 3 others. We incorporated as a sub-Chapter S corporation. For those of you who don't know, that is a tax choice most small businesses make. It means the company pays no federal income taxes directly. Instead any income is divided/distributed among the ownership. In most cases this means, at the botton line, it will mean an approx 5% tax break versus being a C-corp like large businesses & pay corp income taxes directly. Companies can choose s-corp status if there are 100 or less stockholders. For other federal considerations a small business is defined as employment is under 500 employees and revenues under $250M.

    But let's look directly at my company, we eventually grew to approx 200 employees and had revenues of $40M when we sold the company. The four owners eventually drew an annual salary of $150K each (none at first). In the last 5 yrs, we reported distributions of approximately $8-10M annually. According to Obama, that makes me one of the fat cats, the rich millionaires. But remember, I only drew a salary of $150K. And we never actually distributed the margins of the $8-10 million. Instead we put the money back into the company, into expanded employment - except what we had to pay in taxes. Unfortunately, I had to report income of not only my $150K salary but also K-1 distribution of the 1/4 of our business earnings. Meaning my taxes were over $250K per yr for several yrs., even while my salary was only $150K. So instead of being able to put that money into additional jobs we had to pay taxes. Had we been able to hire additional employees and grow faster we would have put many more tax paying employees to work to exceed what the IRS collected directly from me. But politicians (because they never ran a business) and most wage earners don't understand the effect of taxing small business owners. While small businesses such as mine employ most of the people in this country, Obama says these fat cats should be paying their fair share. The result is lower employment. Things are never as simple as the politicians want you to think. While the real fat cats are those born with a silver spoon in their mouths, collecting their income passively from stock appreciation, dividends, etc based upon wealth accumulated by an earlier generation, our politicians don't seem to be able or willing to make a distinction that would make a difference in creating a lot of jobs - stop taxing small business owners as if they are rich millionaires. If that were done, overnight we would have no employment issues. But instead its politics as usual.

    And by the way, when we sold our business, under Clinton, we still had a 45% capital gains tax. So we were taxed yet again on what we invested.
    Last edited by Granddaddy; 01-27-2011 at 03:20 PM.
    David Didier, GA

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  3. #2
    Senior Member duckheads's Avatar
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    Dec 2004
    NW Indiana


    Excellent post!
    CPR HRCH Scott's Sweet Brandy
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    NRA Life Member

  4. #3
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    May 2009


    According to Obama, you are greedy and still haven't paid enough. Come on fork it over!
    Bill Davis

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  6. #4
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    Aug 2010
    SW of Chicago, IL


    great post granddaddy. Please run for president, I will vote for you.

    Barb Gibson
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"

  7. #5
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Jun 2003
    DuLarge-Dulac-Cocodrie Metroplex, La.


    Your first paragraph says it all!
    "All those things bother me: The populism, the lying and the scapegoating and the xenophobia bother me, but then there’s a layer of incompetence here. I suppose, in a way, we should be thankful: If he had a coherent ideology, he’d probably be more dangerous." P J O'Rourke

  8. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Pac NW


    David, Great post! Unfortunately you are in the minority - relatively few sign a paycheck, most just want to recieve one with the associated bennies. & that includes a lot of folks here. Being an owner with it's associated headaches is not where they want to go. That's why it's hard to get an in depth discussion going on this subject. Post something about investing & the usual culprits have something less than intelligent to post. But that's OK, someday they will regret that decision.

    We owned a business - everything was a cash transaction to get it going. When I went to the SBA in Feb 1969 to see about a loan on the advice of the local banker they were all out of money, but they were all on the payroll. They did not appreciate my comment of "what are you doing here if you have no money to lend".

    We spent the 1st 10 years plowing everything back into improvements, & though there was no profit we got dinged for B & O tax by the state to the tune of 10 more kennel runs. & when we sold, on contract, all risk was ours. But the Feds & the State shared in the sale. When the contract was paid off we got stuck for Capital Gains at that rate rather than the rate in effect on the day of the sale. Double.

    We eventually made a little & just as it was rolling in somebody decided they wanted to buy & met our price. The business is still going after 41 years as they improved the ambience. I was never very good at saying something was good when it wasn't.

    So I started investing. I do my level best to avoid taxation & have set it up so those dear & what's dear to me will get ALL of what's left.

    Marvin S

    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  9. #7
    Senior Member wayne anderson's Avatar
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    Oct 2007
    loretto, mn (pavo, ga in winter)


    My (small) estate planner/will writer/attorney said his ideal estate plan is when the check to the undertaker bounces!

  10. #8
    Senior Member Steve Hester's Avatar
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    Apr 2005
    Fort Worth, Texas


    The only fair tax is a flat tax, but it will never happen.
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." - Thomas Jefferson

  11. #9
    Senior Member Goose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    McKinney, Texas


    Half of America doesn't pay taxes (mostly democrats) and they all think that higher taxes on the wealthiest Americans will solve their problems. There's also something like 45 million Americans on food stamps, social security is bankrupt and unemployment is probably north of 20% and they also think that higher taxes on the wealthiest Americans will solve their problems. So the democrats continue to play this class warfare game because it works with these voters. In fact, if you take away the democrats two best weapons (soak the rich and keynesian sodomy) their entire party would disappear. What good's a democrat if he can't spend someone elses money or even create it out of thin air?

    Anybody watching Egypt? Seems like the 'folks' over there have figured it out and are taking action. Not a bad idea and it's coming to our shores soon enough and you can thank Obama and the Ber-nank. It would be nice to be able to follow what's happening over there more closely (and take notes) but the Egyptian government has turned off internet access, texting, etc. Obama wants one of them internet kill switches, too. Maybe he'll get it eventually but he's busy right now trying to outlaw guns. Those freaking bitter clingers.

    We live in Cuba now.

  12. #10
    Senior Member sinner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Colorado Springs, CO


    Lets get term limits and flat tax.
    Take a look at Weld County in Colorado, not a bad model.
    I see no evidence about out lawing guns just the ones like the AK 47/30 plus clips.. I have hear this from the NRA folks for years> Question: Do you still have your guns? I have mine!
    Those that posted about their companies a question: How many contracts did you have with government agencies?
    How were you educated, tax payer dollars or ? and how much productivity/profit did each of your emploees contribute to you business? A few years ago Bill Coors (yes I was one of those being paid by the company) asked me to read a book; "Profit without productivity". I suggest you read it at this time in our workds history.
    My guess is most of you have "profited by living in the "poorly run" country!
    Last edited by sinner; 01-28-2011 at 08:41 AM. Reason: left out a comment.
    This is what he was all about!:
    Vinny last hunting year
    53 pheasants in South Dakota 200 + ducks in Idaho
    Lasting memories Vinny was 13+ years old!

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