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Thread: Q for those that are so pro union

  1. #11
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    I don't know if you are aware of this, we are talking about public & state workers unions.
    And their "share of the p[ie" has been doing nothing but growing.
    BTW---That PIE is mine.

    There is NO Company, only we weary taxpayers.



    RK
    Bingo! That is directly on point! Mark McKinnon gives an excellent analysis of the situation on page 19 of the March 7 issue of Newsweek. Not only do public worker unions extort money from workers, they then use that money to help elect the people with whom they then will be negotiating basically in collusion against the "weary taxpayer".
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Another difference between private & public sector.

    If a private company decides that it cannot afford to do business in one state, it can move. It is not possible for the govt of Ohio to move to Wisconsin Thus, whatever the cost of running the business of govt, they ain't moving out of state or overseas.

    A private company does not have an unlimited option of raising its price to cover increased costs. At some point, it will no longer be competitive with other similar products/services in the marketplace. It can move or close its business. The govt, when faced with costs increasing, just raises taxes. Taxpayers have no chance to "opt out" as they do with other products/services.

    Just read in the NYT that NJ state income tax is 8.97% ... add that to FIT; and property taxes; sales tax ... and one really doesn't have to wonder if the "rich" are paying their fair share of the taxes.

    Interestingly, the states with the highest tax profile (like NJ, NY, and CA) are the ones who have the largest financial mess. Seems like the more $ the govt has to spend, the less wisely they spend it.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post

    Seems like the more $ the govt has to spend, the less wisely they spend it.
    No doubt about it! Best way to cure our economic ills is by shrinking the size of the Federal Government.

    Just look at the companies that have had to move mfg. overseas because of unions.

    One can thank the unions for the term, "rust belt", in the states they control. They have made us uncompetitve in every area.
    Last edited by Franco; 03-11-2011 at 02:13 PM.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



  4. #14
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate_C View Post
    You have a decent point but you create a free rider issue. If you have an open shop then you have to allow for the union workers have higher wadges and benefits then non-union. This is proibited by many states in different ways ways. So workers that don't pay the union dues get to benefit from the activities of the union.

    In many ways unions have gotten out of control, however, we have seen that without collective bargining companies begin striping away benefits and the distribution of income between the workers and senior managment / stockholders goes down. Over the last two decades workers share of the pie has been shrinking. More workers are temp to get around benefits...ect.. I think there are issues that Unions can help with and keep companies accountable to workers.
    Ha! WE got paid slighlty more than min wage but after union dues we were making less than a non union place. As a part time high schooler we got zero benefits. THe union stole from the high school kids.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    No doubt about it! Best way to cure our economic ills is by shrinking the size of the Federal Government.

    Just look at the companies that have had to move mfg. overseas because of unions.

    One can thank the unions for the term, "rust belt", in the states they control. They have made us uncompetitve in every area.
    I helped move two factories overseas. Both were located in The South. Neither was union. But they just plain could not compete with workers making less than $2/hr, no benefits, few environmental concerns, and almost zero protections of worker safety. Then the funny thing was, even those workers could not compete with Chinese Labor. They started importing all steel and cast iron parts from China, pre-machined. So all they ended up doing was assembling parts. If they are even doing that now, I've been out of that business for almost 10 years. They might be even doing the assembly in China now.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I helped move two factories overseas. Both were located in The South. Neither was union. But they just plain could not compete with workers making less than $2/hr, no benefits, few environmental concerns, and almost zero protections of worker safety. Then the funny thing was, even those workers could not compete with Chinese Labor. They started importing all steel and cast iron parts from China, pre-machined. So all they ended up doing was assembling parts. If they are even doing that now, I've been out of that business for almost 10 years. They might be even doing the assembly in China now.
    Those are the kind of buisnesses that need to move overseas.

    The reason companies like Mercedes Benz, Nissan and Toyota chose the south to build thier factories is because they wouldn't be blackmailed by the UAW. Add the fact that pay at these factories are better then what is paid in Detroit.

    The list goes on and on of companies moving to areas that are more buisness friendly than the unionized "rust belt".
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



  7. #17
    Senior Member Nate_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    I don't know if you are aware of this, we are talking about public & state workers unions.
    And their "share of the p[ie" has been doing nothing but growing.
    BTW---That PIE is mine.

    There is NO Company, only we weary taxpayers.
    There is NO profit to share, just the value of MY home or MY income.



    RK
    The original question was:

    "Do you believe that a person should be forced to pay to have a job? This means do you think that a person should be forced to pay money to a union in order to have job? Why is that not extortion?"

    To me this question doesn't reference government unions but is a general statement about closed shops. I agree, unions based on government employees are different because the employer is not incented in the same way. So the union has had an advantage for so long and now their benefits are out of whack. However, I don't think unions alone are to blame. The public and our representatives are to blame. We are the other side of the table and we have to protect our interests too. We have to find a medium.

    Unfortunately, for too long many locations have been electing representatives that are beholden to the unions which is much more common in the Democratic party but happens on both sides of the isle.

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