The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19

Thread: NOt OBL but the other 3 dead terrorists

  1. #11
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Berlin, WI
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by badbullgator View Post
    So we will not release the pictures. What is stopping the terrorist from releasing their own fabricated version of them to inflame the radicals? There are already fake pictures going around the web (I think they are face, but since we cannot see the real ones...). Seems to me that showing OUR photos and video evidence would at least help with a situation like this.
    Amazingly, we released pix from Abu Gharab in a heart beat!!!


    RK
    Last edited by road kill; 05-05-2011 at 02:20 PM.
    Stan b & Elvis

  2. #12
    Senior Member BrianW's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Athol, North Idaho
    Posts
    885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    If you believe in American exceptionalism than you would understand.
    I believe that nothing will change the minds of the murderous radicals except them thinking they won't get the rewards from Allah that they've been promised.

    We could have "exceptionally" treated OBL like an Islamic saint or John Paul II and they would still hate us.
    "It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
    Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    ________________________________________
    Proud partner of (HR) WR SR Brian's 44Magnum Monster
    co-owned by HR Rianne's 2nd Chance Hurricane Rebel

  3. #13
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Watertown NY
    Posts
    697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    Well knock me over with a feather. You believe in American exceptionalism, Cotts? You'll publically proclaim that the American culture, our people, our mores and morals, our form of government, our Constitution, our way of life,....all of it, are superior to the rest of the world? Really?

    I'll await your response...but I'm really hoping you do believe in the exceptionalism of our culture, warts and all, and didn't trot out the notion of American exceptionalism in the same grotesque manner that liberals will occasionally invoke our founding fathers as would-be supporters of thier agenda.

    PS...I have not seen you opine about the killing of bin Laden. Are you bothered by how we did it?
    Exceptionalism comes in many forms. Do I think we are the best nation around? Of course. Do I think we are right with every action we take , of course not.
    When I see hypocrisy with what we say instead of what we do then I question it. We can argue and disagree on those issues but what I seem to be detecting in your response is that if I don't believe in your view of exceptionalism, than maybe I am just a little less patriotic than you. Certainly hope that's not the case.

    No regrets with what happened to Bin Laden at all. Kudos to the Special Forces team
    Last edited by cotts135; 05-05-2011 at 02:23 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,082

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    Exceptionalism comes in many forms. Do I think we are the best nation around? Of course. Do I think we are right with every action we take , of course not.
    When I see hypocrisy with what we say instead of what we do then I question it. We can argue and disagree on those issues but what I seem to be detecting in your response is that if I don't believe in your view of exceptionalism, than maybe I am just a little less patriotic than you. You know, as I was typing my eariler post directed to you I stopped and spent some time pondering whether one could have liberal political beliefs and still believe in American exceptionalism. I came to the conclusion that liberalism and belief in American exceptionalism are not necessarily mutually exclusive and I changed (softened) what I'd written and tried to pose it as more of a question of you than an accusation. I believe, however, that most liberals do not believe in American exceptionalism (including our own president). You seem to be the exception to the rule. Certainly hope that's not the case.

    No regrets with what happened to Bin Laden at all. Kudos to the Special Forces team ...I could be mistaken, but didn't you object to Predator strikes against terrorists without due process. What's the diff between them and bin Laden? If I mischaracterized/misremembered your position about Predator strikes then I apologize in advance.
    ......................
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  5. #15
    Senior Member 2labs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Cold-Windy-Wyoming
    Posts
    472

    Default

    Do any of you honestly think that by showing these pictures will deter the next radical terrorist of doing harm? We are dealing with people who recruit women and children to act as suicide bombers? These pictures will do nothing but make them want an eye for an eye.

    The fact we treat these people with any dignity is beyond me. Not to mention the fact some on this forum do not agree that any interrogation that reveals useful information is a great interrogation technique. The day you worry about how we get information or how we treat a bloodless killer you become a sympathizer.

    Waterboard them, get the info, load them into a C-130, fly over the most remote part of the ocean and push them out. Keep the people in the know as low as possible and the media out of this operation and you have a good day of dealing with terrorist.
    canine n. Synonymous with courage, valor, trust, selflessness. If we learned to be half of what dogs are, the world would be a much better place

  6. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Port St. Lucie, Fl
    Posts
    3,611

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2labs View Post
    Do any of you honestly think that by showing these pictures will deter the next radical terrorist of doing harm? We are dealing with people who recruit women and children to act as suicide bombers? These pictures will do nothing but make them want an eye for an eye.

    The fact we treat these people with any dignity is beyond me. Not to mention the fact some on this forum do not agree that any interrogation that reveals useful information is a great interrogation technique. The day you worry about how we get information or how we treat a bloodless killer you become a sympathizer.

    Waterboard them, get the info, load them into a C-130, fly over the most remote part of the ocean and push them out. Keep the people in the know as low as possible and the media out of this operation and you have a good day of dealing with terrorist.

    "Likewise, supporters of the harsh techniques have repeatedly pointed to the interrogation of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as an example of the effectiveness of harsh methods. The inspector general's report says that Mohammed "provided only a few intelligence reports prior to the use of the waterboard," and much of it was outdated or wrong."

    "The documents also don't address the question of whether, under the stress and pain of intense interrogation, detainees gave false information that they thought their questioners wanted to hear. The CIA documents offer no evidence that the agency made any effort to assess whether the "enhanced" interrogations may have, in fact, produced more bad information than good. Nor do the documents address the question, recently raised by the CIA's current director, Leon Panetta, of whether the same information could have been obtained through nonviolent interrogation tactics."

    So waterboarding produced outdated or wrong information. Real useful wasn't it???????????

  7. #17
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    3,800

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    "Likewise, supporters of the harsh techniques have repeatedly pointed to the interrogation of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as an example of the effectiveness of harsh methods. The inspector general's report says that Mohammed "provided only a few intelligence reports prior to the use of the waterboard," and much of it was outdated or wrong."

    "The documents also don't address the question of whether, under the stress and pain of intense interrogation, detainees gave false information that they thought their questioners wanted to hear. The CIA documents offer no evidence that the agency made any effort to assess whether the "enhanced" interrogations may have, in fact, produced more bad information than good. Nor do the documents address the question, recently raised by the CIA's current director, Leon Panetta, of whether the same information could have been obtained through nonviolent interrogation tactics."

    So waterboarding produced outdated or wrong information. Real useful wasn't it???????????
    YOu are reading backwards Roger. Before waterboarding he gave garbage info.
    Amazing how the liberal mind comprehends things.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  8. #18
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Rapid City, SD
    Posts
    4,289

    Default

    This article explains the "reasoning" about the pictures situation as good as any. UB



    Posted by Lori Ziganto (Profile)
    Wednesday, May 4th at 5:00PM EDT



    Representative Mike Rogers is the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. Clearly, “intelligence” is a term used very loosely, as his remarks regarding the release of Bin Laden photos make abundantly clear:
    “The risks of release outweigh the benefits,” Rogers said. “Conspiracy theorists around the world will just claim the photos are doctored anyway, and there is a real risk that releasing the photos will only serve to inflame public opinion in the Middle East.”

    “Imagine how the American people would react if Al Qaeda killed one of our troops or military leaders, and put photos of the body on the internet,” Rogers continued.
    Oh, really Mr. Rogers? We dumb old rubes can’t control ourselves, I suppose. You are so much Better and Smarter Than Us ™. I mean, it’s not like we’ve seen thousands of American civilians killed by Jihadists. Good thing we all didn’t see pictures of innocent people on fire jumping to their own deaths, huh?


    Jimmie Bise over at The Sundries Shack sums it up best:
    The larger point is that it ought to insult the hell out of every Americans that Mike Rogers thinks us no better than the typical riot-prone Muslim in the Middle East, even though he has ample evidence this is not the case. How little must he think of you and I (and Muslims in general, but that’s another story) that he believes we have the same limits of self-control as people who murder innocents because some guy in Denmark drew a picture of Mohammed?

    You know, I don’t care to find out. I don’t want to hear an apology from him. I just want him gone. He’s disgraced his nation, Congress, and the Republican Party. I can no longer trust him and neither should anyone else. Speaker Boehner…it’s on you now.
    Exactly. How dare he? He is likely parroting President Obama’s reasoning which is still no excuse. Do not want. Grow a pair, will you? As Bise also points out, this genius is ignorant of even the most recent history. We have seen how Americans would react. See, contrary to Rogers’ beliefs, we are not intelligence-deficient nor are we barbaric animals.

    The disdain in which the Washington elite holds average Americans is disgusting. And the esteem in which they hold multi-culturalism and moral relativism is now beyond just horrifying – it is dangerous. It’s the same page from Mayor Bloomberg’s book and Senators Reid and Graham’s book.

    After first trying to pin the blame on “someone upset by the health care law”, Mayor Bloomberg fretted more about “backlash” against Muslims than an actual car bomb being set in Times Square. To him, we pesky hicks are so ignorant that we might take to the streets randomly assaulting people!

    Senators Reid and Graham blamed Terry Jones for riots that killed innocents; riots perpetrated by and only by Muslims. They went so far as to suggest that our Freedom of Speech be quashed lest we “trigger” more violence. By speaking. We are too irresponsible to have such rights. Now, we are too irresponsible and stupid to be given information.

    You know what’s risky, Mr. Rogers? Evil barbarians. And the wilful ignorance on the part of our alleged leaders. Attempting to quash our freedom of speech by having members of the American government condemn the exercise thereof does nothing to protect our troops or our country. Neither does withholding information from us by creating a disgusting rationale in which we are equated with barbarians.

    In fact, it spits on the very freedoms for which our troops fight, and die.
    This delusional moral equivalency is revolting and must end. The “risk”, Mr. Rogers, is if it does not.
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Troopers Mom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Gilbert, Arizona
    Posts
    901

    Default

    Since this is an open forum and although I have not posted much at all in this particular area, I believe everyone is entitled to express their views with equal credibility regardless of the number of posts previously added.

    Although I did not vote for President Obama and do not agree with a number of his plans, I must say that I approve totally of how he is handling the Bin Laden situation. It would be more harmful in the long run to show pictures and to continue to give out detailed information. Isn’t it enough to know that we are rid of Osama Bin Laden once and for all? Do we really need to know all the gory details? For those who feel they need “proof”, they would probably still be skeptical because that is how they want to believe. Following the Islamic practices for the preparation into the next world was absolutely a correct and proper thing to do, not so much for the person that Bin Laden was, but the U.S. showed respect for that particular religious belief for the rest of the Islamic followers. Let’s face it, with some cultures and mostly with some individuals, no matter what was done, it would have been the wrong thing. Some people are just that way. We have some of those types even on this site. One of the major problems as I see it, are people like Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Donald Trump, and others. They only speak out to criticize and demean someone else’s plans or programs. The news media, in my estimation, has way too much leeway and does not practice good common sense or decency in reporting news. They encourage making everything a spectacle and turning events into a continuing soap opera which in turn feeds and entertains the throngs of people who seem to require sensationalism to make their lives more interesting. All of this serves only to show our country’s weaknesses.

    Now Pakistan is showing its true face and how they view the U. S. Do we really matter to them at all except to be the recipients of our multi-billion dollar aid program promoted by John Kerry. Do we really think that will win them over? Pakistan is really not that critical to us. Our imports from them are mainly textiles, wearing apparel, cloth, clothing, thread, and immigrants, most of whom do not really like us anyway. If anyone has purchased clothing made in Pakistan, they know after 1 or 2 washings, they fall apart and the thread is flimsy and breaks. Pima Cotton is one of the highest grades of cotton, grown and produced right here in Arizona, but unfortunately is a dying industry because we choose to go outside our country for inferior products. Oh yes, we do import some prepared food products from Pakistan which frankly, I would be very reluctant to consume.

    The United States would be far better served to take this unappreciated aid program and heal some of the ills in our own country. We could start by paying down some of the enormous deficit which is pretty darn near its cap. Our country’s leaders teach us to go into debt, but they don’t back us once we follow their lead. We basically give away the store for what? Popularity? Popularity is fickle and fleeting. We need substance to keep us the strong and proud nation we once were and can be again if we could just get some common sense and simplify the mess we currently have and take care of who really counts.

    Arleen
    Last edited by Troopers Mom; 05-05-2011 at 11:09 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •