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Thread: How's That Obamacare Doing...

  1. #1
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Default How's That Obamacare Doing...

    ....Reducing The Uninsured?

    According to Investors Business Daily today:

    3M announces that it will end it program for retirees in 2013 as a result of health care reform. 23,000 retirees

    McDonalds considering terminating its "Mini-Med" plan. 10,000 employees

    Principal Financial exiting the health business. 840,000 insureds

    Harvard Pilgram terminating Medicare Advantage. 22,000

    Anthem, Aetna, Cigna, Humana, and several Blue Cross companies exiting the "Child Only" market due to Obamacare.

    This is only the beginning. Get thy arse ready for Obama, Reid, Pelosi Mutual Insurance Company funded by your dollars.
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    Tthe suit filed by Virginia could invalidate the entire healthcare bill. If a single portion of the 2200 pages is found to be unconstitutional, the whole 2200 pages would be thrown out. This is because Congress forgot to put in a "severability clause". Without this, the whole act stands or falls based upon each single sentence being constitutional. If one fails, they all go.

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    Senior Member tom's Avatar
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    Do you really think that big busisness will allow healthcare reform to stand when there are big buck to be made?

    If you really want to know what is wrong with healthcare reform, ask a republican congressman or senator, I'm sure they would be happy to tell you how they made sure that sucess would be impossible.
    Last edited by tom; 10-05-2010 at 12:13 PM.
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    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Tom, say it isn't so...
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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    ....Reducing The Uninsured?

    According to Investors Business Daily today:

    3M announces that it will end it program for retirees in 2013 as a result of health care reform. 23,000 retirees

    McDonalds considering terminating its "Mini-Med" plan. 10,000 employees

    Principal Financial exiting the health business. 840,000 insureds

    Harvard Pilgram terminating Medicare Advantage. 22,000

    Anthem, Aetna, Cigna, Humana, and several Blue Cross companies exiting the "Child Only" market due to Obamacare.

    This is only the beginning. Get thy arse ready for Obama, Reid, Pelosi Mutual Insurance Company funded by your dollars.
    Are you saying these changes are good, bad or indifferent?

    3M specifically noted that, because of health care reform, that better medical options were available to its retirees than it was offering. It will terminate its plan, giving retirees the money that it otherwise would have paid, to permit them to buy their own coverage instead. (See http://www.startribune.com/business/...D3aPc:_Yyc:aUU)

    McDonalds has contested the WSJ report, noting that it has no intention of terminating benefits for its employees. However, it is addressing alternatives since the provider of its benefits for hourly employees does not comply with a Federal requirement that at least 85% of premiums be paid out in benefits unless an exemption is requested and approved. For normal benefit plans, the 85% limit is not that onerous, and many states already have requirements forcing insurance companies to pay out 80-85% of premiums in benefits as a minimum. Most plans have loss ratios much higher than that. However, the McDonalds plan is what is called a mini-med plan. These are plans that offer very low benefit levels with relatively significant premium payments. For the McDonalds plan, premiums of about $727/year yield a maximum benefit level of $2,000 per year. The cost is paid by employees. BCS of Illinois has offered no information on the cost or profitability of this plan, but does not meet the Federal standard. So far, most state insurance commissioners have opposed granting an exemption to such plans because they are seen as abusive, providing almost no real coverage while giving people the illusion that they are protected. (http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/wi...kers/19655050/)

    Principal Financial is getting out of the health insurance business not because of health reform, but because it has been losing money and business for several years and does not want to make the types of investments needed to make its business competitive. Instead, it has reached an agreement under which United Health will provide coverage for its customers as policies come up for renewal. (http://www.insurancejournal.com/news.../01/113746.htm)

    Harvard Pilgim is not alone in terminating Medicare Advantage coverage. The entire Medicare Advantage program existed only because of a windfall subsidy being provided to Medicare Advantage participants that was not offered to other Medicare recipients. The cost has been astronomical. The benefit could not possibly be extended to all Medicare beneficiaries without massive increases in the cost of Medicare. Instead, one of the savings in the health reform program was to eliminate the subsidy.

    Termination of child only health plans: This development is actually an indicator of why it is impossible to implement restrictions on pre-existing condition limitations (which are overwhelmingly supported by the public) without a program that also requires universal coverage (which is overwhelmingly opposed by the public). Child only plans have routinely excluded children with existing and/or genetic problems. The new law makes that illegal. Insurance companies are pulling out.I disagree with the requirement of the law only because it is not linked to mandatory universal coverage. Maybe this will help people understand why the two components -- universal coverage and universal eligibility -- cannot be addressed separately.
    Last edited by YardleyLabs; 10-05-2010 at 01:19 PM.

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    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    \ Maybe this will help people understand why the two components -- universal coverage and universal eligibility -- cannot be addressed separately.
    Don't hold your breath...
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    According to conservative dogma, isn't this a good thing? If those workers deserve health care, they will get better jobs and have enough to buy their own care. At the same time, the companies that cut their benefits will have larger profits, to create more jobs, and everyone in America will live happily ever after. Right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    ....Reducing The Uninsured?

    According to Investors Business Daily today:

    3M announces that it will end it program for retirees in 2013 as a result of health care reform. 23,000 retirees

    McDonalds considering terminating its "Mini-Med" plan. 10,000 employees

    Principal Financial exiting the health business. 840,000 insureds

    Harvard Pilgram terminating Medicare Advantage. 22,000

    Anthem, Aetna, Cigna, Humana, and several Blue Cross companies exiting the "Child Only" market due to Obamacare.

    This is only the beginning. Get thy arse ready for Obama, Reid, Pelosi Mutual Insurance Company funded by your dollars.
    More proof that they didn't go far enough. They should have abolishied the insurance industry and set up a single payer system like 70% of US citizens wanted. Insurance companies are useless leaches on society. Thanks for pointing that out again MK.

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    Senior Member tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depittydawg View Post
    More proof that they didn't go far enough. They should have abolishied the insurance industry and set up a single payer system like 70% of US citizens wanted. Insurance companies are useless leaches on society. Thanks for pointing that out again MK.
    Since insurance is a "for profit business", if you can not afford your medical expenses out of pocket, how in hell will you ever be able to afford the insurance??
    Think about it!

    If something bad happens, your neighbors gets to help foot the bill with their insurance premiums! Now how socialistic is that !?!
    Big business interests is the only reason that we have insurance based health care in this country.
    Last edited by tom; 10-05-2010 at 06:58 PM.
    "there is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance --- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Maybe this will help people understand why the two components -- universal coverage and universal eligibility -- cannot be addressed separately.
    Of course! That is the only way that universal eligibility can work ... the twist is in how you get universal participation. Either you tax people to provide the coverage, or you attempt to "compel" people to participate in coverage.

    Therein lies the rub with American culture ... we really don't like people telling us what we have to buy or how we have to live.

    The solutions that Obamacare put in the legislation are too weak to accomplish the task. However, the "requirements" for health programs will ultimately result in the govt being the insuror ... think Medicare for everyone. The govt may not provide the services (as is done in most other countries with socialized medicine) ... but govt will regulate the payments for the services as they do for Medicare.

    While we complain about what the insurance companies will pay for, be prepared to have the govt face the same arithmetic issues that the insurance companies face. After all, that's why Medicare costs keep going up (participants paying premiums each month, automatically withheld from their benefit checks).

    Why does nobody notice what is happening in the UK? The financial burden has gotten so large that they ARE making decisions to deny treatments ... from what I've read the treatments must be anticipated to lengthen life by a year, otherwise the treatment is denied. They are also trying to put some of the health care back into private hands ... letting people purchase health care outside the govt system.

    The value of looking carefully at the UK is that, as one of the oldest systems of universal health care, it has gone through the complete evolution of govt-controlled medical care (and make no mistake, whether the govt provides the "insurance" or the actual services, since they will control the payments for the services, they will control medical care). They are now at the stage where they are finding it's not working. Duh?

    Imagine the incongruity of the provision that taxes "deluxe" health care plans. If someone (or their employer) is willing to pay for enhanced health care, why would the govt tax them for that? They are already taking a load off the govt's hands by providing for their own high-quality health care. Perhaps it is just another way for the govt to tax the rich: if someone can afford a lot of bucks for their own health care, they should also have enough bucks to chip in for somebody else's health care. Uh ... but I thought "the rich" were already going to be paying a higher income tax because they have a lot of bucks?

    I am not unfeeling about those who have health issues & can't afford the care they need. I just don't feel that Obamacare is going to solve the problem.

    There was an excellent article in the NY Times the other day about a company that is improving medical records. It hasn't been able to make any $ at it yet. This deficiency could have been addressed without the massive health care legislation.

    I can hardly wait to get my booklet on how to prevent Medicare fraud ... Andy Griffith says it's coming soon. I can hardly wait till a booklet comes out for Obamacare.
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