The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Lardy Explains on Cold Blinds

  1. #1
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    4,219

    Default Lardy Explains on Cold Blinds

    I rewatched Mike Lardy's Fireside Chat, Disc 5 of TRT, a little while ago. One of the things he discussed was his approach to cold blinds and why he doesn't go straight to them after double T and swimby.
    His Transition land sequence is:
    Pattern Blinds
    Blind Drills
    Pattern Blinds with diversions
    Elementary Cold blinds

    I understood what he was saying but don't know if I can explain it as good as he did.
    He said a long while back there were the collar trainers and the no-collars trainers.
    The collar trainers said my dog will now take the casts and I can go right to cold blinds as they will go anywhere I want them to. Lardy said he has watched this and the trainer following the dog out blowing a lot of whistles, etc.

    The no-collar trainers believed in teaching as outlined in D.L. Walters book on Training Retrievers to Handle with lots of patterns and walking baseball.

    His conclusion is that you should use the best of both approaches.

    Dennis Voigt was a part of the fireside chat and maybe he can explain it better.

    The reason I made this post is that I suggested someone do pattern blinds first before cold blinds and another person suggested I was........ well, they disagreed.
    I expect some will still disagree but it should make for an interesting discussion.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Charles C.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Marshall, TX
    Posts
    1,573

    Default

    I have trained with/learned from trainers from both camps. I'll say that I don't think I'm a good enough trainer to come straight off the double T and run cold blinds. The people I know who train that way condition their dogs VERY well and have years of experience helping the dogs make that transition. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Red retrievers's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    NW WI
    Posts
    451

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    I rewatched Mike Lardy's Fireside Chat, Disc 5 of TRT, a little while ago. One of the things he discussed was his approach to cold blinds and why he doesn't go straight to them after double T and swimby.
    His Transition land sequence is:
    Pattern Blinds
    Blind Drills
    Pattern Blinds with diversions
    Elementary Cold blinds

    I understood what he was saying but don't know if I can explain it as good as he did.
    He said a long while back there were the collar trainers and the no-collars trainers.
    The collar trainers said my dog will now take the casts and I can go right to cold blinds as they will go anywhere I want them to. Lardy said he has watched this and the trainer following the dog out blowing a lot of whistles, etc.

    The no-collar trainers believed in teaching as outlined in D.L. Walters book on Training Retrievers to Handle with lots of patterns and walking baseball.

    His conclusion is that you should use the best of both approaches.

    Dennis Voigt was a part of the fireside chat and maybe he can explain it better.

    The reason I made this post is that I suggested someone do pattern blinds first before cold blinds and another person suggested I was........ well, they disagreed.
    I expect some will still disagree but it should make for an interesting discussion.
    I agree with the method. For what it is worth to me it just makes sense to teach the dog a little more before jumping into long cold blinds whether it is FT or HT. The extra time spent can only help.
    Dan Boerboon

    The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who do nothing about them.” Albert Einstein

    Those without dreams won't go the extra mile

  4. #4
    Senior Member RetrieversONLINE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lindsay, Ontario
    Posts
    678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    I rewatched Mike Lardy's Fireside Chat, Disc 5 of TRT, a little while ago. One of the things he discussed was his approach to cold blinds and why he doesn't go straight to them after double T and swimby.
    His Transition land sequence is:
    Pattern Blinds
    Blind Drills
    Pattern Blinds with diversions
    Elementary Cold blinds

    I understood what he was saying but don't know if I can explain it as good as he did.
    He said a long while back there were the collar trainers and the no-collars trainers.
    The collar trainers said my dog will now take the casts and I can go right to cold blinds as they will go anywhere I want them to. Lardy said he has watched this and the trainer following the dog out blowing a lot of whistles, etc.

    The no-collar trainers believed in teaching as outlined in D.L. Walters book on Training Retrievers to Handle with lots of patterns and walking baseball.

    His conclusion is that you should use the best of both approaches.

    Dennis Voigt was a part of the fireside chat and maybe he can explain it better.

    The reason I made this post is that I suggested someone do pattern blinds first before cold blinds and another person suggested I was........ well, they disagreed.
    I expect some will still disagree but it should make for an interesting discussion.
    Wayne:

    I wasn't going to bite on this one, but, on reflection transition to cold blinds is the single biggest stumbling block for new trainers rivalled only by force fetch (bcause force is understood better than fetch?).

    Transition to cold blinds is huge for many so the fact that some can transiton from Double T to cold blinds is irrelevant. Mike's and others progression of pattern blinds, diversions and blind drills is very sound.PS. I am not a proponent of using Bird Boy Blinds to short cut this process.

    I do think that the transition to cold blinds requires an additional balanced approach and I have written about this extensively in Retrievers ONLINE.

    The 3 pronged approach involves cold blinds(simple, factor free and in sets of 3), repeated blinds (which are blinds re-run some 2-7 days later) and walk-arounds(where you take the dog and put out 3 blinds with him-return to line and run). These 3 methods need to be adjusted and balanced depending on the dog. Following this process, your progression to cold blind will be efficient and effective.

    Cheers
    Dennis

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Cape Girardeau Mo.
    Posts
    1,365

    Default

    As you said there were ( are ) two schools of thought on this ...Years ago we used sight blinds and pattern blinds because we didn't have the casting skills we have today...Thus you had to have more of a lining dog than a casting one...People would position a person close to the blind and if the dog needed help they were there to toss one and get the dog on out there as needed..build confidence ....We walked blinds out with the dog and dropped bumpers in a pile and as we backed up the dog was sent at random spots along the line...Lines of bumpers were put out and the dog ran futher after each pick up...I do none of these today...I go straight to so called cold blinds and run them (5 mulitple blinds ) until the dog can line the first one of the series ...it being the shortest and easiest...then I add #6 and so on up the line ...as soon as a dog lines one we add another one...repeating the whole series each day ...the newely added one is the only "cold blind" from the first day on...The only way a dog gets comfortable running cold blinds is by doing them...It ( the process of teaching and building confidence ) is up to us as trainers as to how much we rely on pressure to communicate with the dog and what we do when we see the dog is not getting the point...Usually simplify in some manner to help the dog...With success comes confidence when we don't put booger men out there in the big unknown...Steve S

  6. #6
    Senior Member Matt Weberpal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Antigo WI
    Posts
    453

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Red retrievers View Post
    I agree with the method. For what it is worth to me it just makes sense to teach the dog a little more before jumping into long cold blinds whether it is FT or HT. The extra time spent can only help.
    I agree. My dog has gained a lot of good experience from pattern blinds and blind drills. I must say he handles really well so far, because of these drills. It just makes sense to build up to cold blinds instead of jumping right in. I'd be stuck without following this sequence.
    Matt Weberpal


    Candlewood's Just In Case JH

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Aubrey TX
    Posts
    5,880

    Default

    It depends on the dog and your skill level... I've trained all facets of every successful camp. What works for me and one dog may not work for the next..

    Be a student of the game and learn as much as you can from every camp.

    It's not rocket science but one does have to pay attention and have an open mind.

    FWIW

    Angie

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Jonesboro, GA
    Posts
    2,682

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    ...

    The reason I made this post is that I suggested someone do pattern blinds first before cold blinds and another person suggested I was........ well, they disagreed.
    I expect some will still disagree but it should make for an interesting discussion.
    Wayne this makes me think about the movie trailer from Bad Teacher...

    Russell: "There is no way Lebron will ever beat Jordon. Call me when Lebron has 6 championships."
    Shawn: "Is that your only arguement."
    Russell: "THAT’S ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED, SHAWN!!"

    Except I believe Lardy has 7 Championships.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Victoria, British Coliumbia
    Posts
    385

    Default

    The dog needs to go with confidence whether it is marks or blinds. Cold blinds following the double T will in short not inspire confidence.
    Dogs form good habits or bad habits. agood habit is for the dog to leave your side going hard and ideally where sent (initial line).
    Pattern work, drills, sight blinds, permanent known blinds all do this. The dogs knows where the dropped duck or bumper is placed as he has been there many times before, so he goes hard.
    I start the cold blinds as done by Lardy. I use live pigeons for the pull and I make no effort to hide the pigeon basket from the dogs.
    No big distances, usually 40,50,75,100 and 125 yards. Shackle the feet and use an elastic band to hold the feathers on one wing tight to prevent the bird from flying away. You will get style from the dogs working on live birds.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    7,688

    Default

    Cold blinds following the double T will in short not inspire confidence.
    I don't think it's that simple Ironwood. I don't do pattern blinds but rather go to shortish multiple cold blinds and blind drills.

    I believe it's probably more how it's done rather than what is done.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •