Do consider a dog with a title like a HRCH, Master Hunter etc. a finished retriever if it's taken numerous attempts to get the required number of passes to title, or is a truly finished retriever a dog that consistently passes at least 75 % of the tests that he runs?
X2 what Whitefoot said,
But a finished dog means different things to different people. Having a title on the dog no matter from what venue (AKC, HRC, APLA, etc) to me tells me in layman's terms that the dog can do a hunt test. I am a hunter, so I also want to see the dog perform in the field. I do hunts tests because they are fun, I screw up more than my dog does but hey it teaches me something new every time.
I don't think a dog needs to have any titles at all, to be considered "finished".
As long as it has completed transition training, it is "finished". That would be a dog that can at least mark a triple, and run fairly difficult cold blinds, under complete control.
A dog that has a HRCH or MH title, would certainly be trained to a "finished" level. No matter how times it blew up in a test.
I don't think a dog needs to have any titles at all, to be considered "finished".
As long as it has completed transition training, it is "finished". That would be a dog that can at least mark a triple, and run fairly difficult cold blinds, under complete control.
A dog that has a HRCH or MH title, would certainly be trained to a "finished" level. No matter how times it blew up in a test.
Agree 100%. Titles don't matter. I also agree with Howard. As long as a dog is competing he is not finished.
Now a dog that passes 75% of hunt tests is clearly better than a dog that passes 10%.
But be very careful here. You are showing signs of competitiveness and this will quickly lead you to the world of field trials were only the best of the weekend get the ribbons and pass rate means nothing.
I'm new to all this stuff, but to me a finished dog is a that is capable of doing all the things you ask of a dog to do, and to some people that is different things. I know plenty of people that would be thrilled to have a dog that would get seasoned pass. Me personally looking for good hunting dogs, if a dog is obediant, marks well, is steady to the gun, delivers to hands, and will handle a little (do blinds out to about a 100) than for me right now he is finished.
haha. I don't doubt it. When using these terms (started, seasoned & finished) to describe hunting dogs (as opposed to HRC titles), there's just so much room for personal interpretation.
In my mind, a finished dog is exactly what copterdoc said. I'd consider a started dog as one who was through formal ob and force fetch and was moderately steady (meaning a steadiness standard has begun to be implemented...the dog is not wild at the line and can easily be restrained with a taught or limp lead). Seasoned, to me, is a lot more nebulous. If I was forced to define it, I'd say the dog is through basics, is completely steady and is doing doubles.
My dog went 4/5 in seasoned but ran 11 tests to get his 4 passes for his HRCH. I guess it's different standards and expectations for different trainers but I know he's improving and hopefully will become alot more consistent as he matures.
Someone said that he has his finished title but isn't really running at a finished level, and I tend to agree, I figure that a dog should be able to pass at least 75 % of the tests that he runs in, is this a realistic goal for most dogs?
I had a "finished" dog that was given to me. Corky picked up every duck that I shot except one that I shot for 8 years. She only missed one dove I knocked down. If a duck dived, she loved it, would catch it, release it and catch it again until I called her in. She even brought me birds others had shot and couldn't find.
She was the foundation bitch of Gator Point Kennel. The kennel was named for the 11 foot 1 inch gator that was watching her train in water as a 8 month old pup. Just watching her gave that gator a .243 heart atack. I had other dogs that were good, but she really had my heart! She passed her ability on to her offspring for many years and most of our pups go directly back to her, though she may have dropped off their pedigree a good while back. She was the first of our Labs to be burried here is Mississippi. Miss her still, Bill
Don't get "too" hung up on passing rates. The national average for Master is somewhere around 50%, and a big chunk of each master flight will be dogs that already have a MH title.
HRC publishes it's requirements to earn a finished title, and when those requirements are met that title is awarded. A dog with a finished title is a finished dog....For an enlightened view on when training is completed, refer back to Howard's post.
________
Mike
Never ! When you and your dog are working together as a team in the field, or blind and you load up as the sun is setting. You have your game bag filled to the limit, You have a finished dog. Happy Tails
I like Howards definition. I just had a thought that is opposite to what others have said. I have a MH that titled a week after his 2nd birthday. This was the first week of June. My dog hasn't hunted a single day yet. He's ran 10 MH tests so far and passed 8 of them. Many would say he's definitely a finished dog. Personally he's nowhere near being finished. Once I can put him in about any hunting situation and he can handle them with ease then I will say he's "finished". I consider my 7yr old MH finished. He has qualiffied for 3 MN's and ran 2 so far. He's also hunted in about every situation so far and does very well. There isn't much more we can do other than keep him tuned up for hunt tests and keep on hunting. I know my definition is different than a more classical definition but it is what it is.
Thanks for the replies, in the HRCH my dog has his Finished Title, but as Howard said his training is never finished and never will be,even if he passes 99% of the tests he runs there will always be room for improvement.
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