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Thread: Vocal at Line Correction, My Version

  1. #71
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohn View Post
    The problem with trying to fix noise and control issues at every training session is that you never get to train and advance your dog. When teaching a dog something new you like to start the day where you stopped the day before, fixing noise is a 90 day process for worst cases only,most should be 60 days. As always when correcting get in get out and move on...Most likely after a day or 2 off from training the dog may try to push your buttons again but the fix to put them back into real time again is about 30 seconds...get in get and move on...Randy
    Are you saying what I posted here is a waste of time?

    Interesting.


    With all due respect Randy, that post is out of line.
    No 2 solutions are the same.



    This is my approach to solving our problem.
    It has served us well.
    My apologies if I have given bad advice.


    And I will admit, it is probably worth what you paid for it!
    Last edited by road kill; 05-24-2013 at 06:58 AM.
    Stan b & Elvis

  2. #72
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    [QUOTEPaul,
    As the saying goes "I didn't know what I didn't know."
    I was so fortunate to find people that genuinely wanted to help us.
    And they did.

    I am grateful, and they know that.
    ][/QUOTE]

    It sounds like he is still helping'

    Now wrap your mind around what he just actually taught and get her done. There is great wisdom in what Randy just wrote. It didn't appear to me like he was chastising you,,, but only trying to redirect your efforts so your dog can continue to move forward. But may be I read it wrong. Don;t stop the maintenence even regular ole dog training needs maintenance to keep sharp,, I guess its called," balance"
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  3. #73
    Senior Member jeff t.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohn View Post
    The problem with trying to fix noise and control issues at every training session is that you never get to train and advance your dog.
    I agree. The implication of dealing with a noise problem is the impact that it has on training. Delaying the overall progression of training and skill development of the dog is the biggest downside to dealing with noise.

    It is difficult to advance the skills of the dog while focusing on eliminating noise.

    It has been awhile, but I do remember the frustration of having a talented dog that was held back. When my "Sinner" was a youngster, she was a loud, whining, screamer. It took nearly two years of training to reduce the noise to a manageable level and I would have much preferred to have fixed it sooner. I would have valued and investigated any humane solution that resulted in a quiet dog on a faster timeline.

    Our dog's careers are too short in the best of circumstances. In Sinner's case, two years of her short career was spent focusing on noise.

    Now, when I look into her graying face, I wish we could have been doing something more fun during the time we were teaching her to be quiet or that I could have done it quicker.
    Last edited by jeff t.; 05-24-2013 at 07:20 AM.
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  4. #74
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Are you saying what I posted here is a waste of time?

    Interesting.


    With all due respect Randy, that post is out of line.
    No 2 solutions are the same.



    This is my approach to solving our problem.
    It has served us well.
    My apologies if I have given bad advice.


    And I will admit, it is probably worth what you paid for it!
    Stan- You know I love you man but I think you're being overly sensitive. This does not take away from the fact that you have worked through the issue with Elvis ad have gotten the results you were after. You have done a wonderful job. But I'm sure if you look in your heart of hearts you wish you could've done it quicker.

    randy is just trying to tell you and others that two years is 1 year and 9 months too long- where you could have been moving on. Jeff Telander is right. If he would have gotten Sinners noise problem under control earlier, she may have had more fun in field trials before she had to retire due to injury. ( Not that she hasn't gone to do wonderful things and become a tracking champion but that is another issue.). Our wonderful dogs lives are too shorts and their competitive lives even shorter. Instead of being overly sensitive, I would be asking Randy how to fix the noise problem in 90 days or less.

    Randy has had very talented dogs one of which had a noise issue that he had to work on and fix. That bitch had a ton of aa points and could Mark your socks off. He has felt your pain. Now he is a professional trainer, he gets called upon time after time to fix not only noise issues but other issues that other professionals or amateurs have screwed up with their dogs. I respect his advice and counsel. I only wish Randy lived closer to me. Randy has given me lots of time on text messages and phone calls that I greatly appreciate.

    so, I would take this as an opportunity to learn another technique.

    Kind Regards-
    Last edited by JusticeDog; 05-24-2013 at 07:51 AM.
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  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Are you saying what I posted here is a waste of time?

    Interesting.


    With all due respect Randy, that post is out of line.
    No 2 solutions are the same.



    This is my approach to solving our problem.
    It has served us well.
    My apologies if I have given bad advice.


    And I will admit, it is probably worth what you paid for it!
    With all due respect Stan it is yours and not Randy's post that is out of line.
    Randy is one otf the best RTF posters. You gave him credit for solving a very difficult issue.
    Now you want to bite the hand that fed you???

    Get over yourself and your sensitive need to be an internet hero.
    You said you didn't know what you dont' know.
    That is correct. You still don't and never will know it all. Nobody will!!!

    But this type 2 attitude will prevent you from getting as close as you'd like.

    You have insisted that you feel Elvis's problem is rooted in genetics.
    What everyone has politely avoided telling you is that this is a problem that may have a genetic component to it; but that in a vast majority of cases the environmental component { that means you STAN} has to be so remiss as to allow the genetics and whatever to allow this problem to become as chronic as you say it was with you and Elvis.

    Good luck with your dog & I'll bet you'll find help to be more available in the future if you dont get your panties in a wad & are willing to completely listen to the more knowledgeable who so graciously offer their expertise freely and willingly

  6. #76
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    With all due respect Stan it is yours and not Randy's post that is out of line.
    Randy is one otf the best RTF posters. You gave him credit for solving a very difficult issue.
    Now you want to bite the hand that fed you???

    Get over yourself and your sensitive need to be an internet hero.
    You said you didn't know what you dont' know.
    That is correct. You still don't and never will know it all. Nobody will!!!

    But this type 2 attitude will prevent you from getting as close as you'd like.

    You have insisted that you feel Elvis's problem is rooted in genetics.
    What everyone has politely avoided telling you is that this is a problem that may have a genetic component to it; but that in a vast majority of cases the environmental component { that means you STAN} has to be so remiss as to allow the genetics and whatever to allow this problem to become as chronic as you say it was with you and Elvis.

    Good luck with your dog & I'll bet you'll find help to be more available in the future if you dont get your panties in a wad & are willing to completely listen to the more knowledgeable who so graciously offer their expertise freely and willingly
    What a lovely post.
    It is clear you havn't resad much of the thread.

    I missed Randys advice, all I saw was criticism of how long it took.

    I would love to read Randys procedure.
    Perhaps he will post it.

    Thanks for the kind words and sage advice Mark!
    Stan b & Elvis

  7. #77
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohn View Post
    The problem with trying to fix noise and control issues at every training session is that you never get to train and advance your dog. When teaching a dog something new you like to start the day where you stopped the day before, fixing noise is a 90 day process for worst cases only,most should be 60 days. As always when correcting get in get out and move on...Most likely after a day or 2 off from training the dog may try to push your buttons again but the fix to put them back into real time again is about 30 seconds...get in get and move on...Randy
    I hi-lited the above. Not only can you not train and advance with each session, you will not be invited back to too many sessions if you have to spend 1/2 hour or more each time on your control issues. I scooted around this one by bouncing back and forth between line manners and higher education, getting neither one perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff t. View Post
    I agree. The implication of dealing with a noise problem is the impact that it has on training. Delaying the overall progression of training and skill development of the dog is the biggest downside to dealing with noise.

    It is difficult to advance the skills of the dog while focusing on eliminating noise.

    It has been awhile, but I do remember the frustration of having a talented dog that was held back. When my "Sinner" was a youngster, she was a loud, whining, screamer. It took nearly two years of training to reduce the noise to a manageable level and I would have much preferred to have fixed it sooner. I would have valued and investigated any humane solution that resulted in a quiet dog on a faster timeline.

    Our dog's careers are too short in the best of circumstances. In Sinner's case, two years of her short career was spent focusing on noise.

    Now, when I look into her graying face, I wish we could have been doing something more fun during the time we were teaching her to be quiet or that I could have done it quicker.


    And this really touched my heart. The reason I do this is to have quality time and build a better bond with my dog. It hurts me to the core to look back at all I allowed my dog to be put through before I realized how much fun slow training could be. But in the end, we could have had so much more fun, and made more progress if I had known a quicker but humane way to deal with it at the time.

    And Stan, I really don't think Randy was demeaning your efforts. Read what he was offering and combine it with what you have learned. Then you really make progress!
    Carol,
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  8. #78
    Senior Member Randy Bohn's Avatar
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    1) Most important...Stan, I didn't mean to upset you , not my intention...you took my post the wrong way.
    2) Everybody....Stans a good man in trying to help others, cut him some slack
    3) Obedience is key
    What I was trying to say was fix it move on...and yes there are many ways to do things and if they work great if not find another way.I never got my dog of a life time under control with noise and that was years and years and session and session of nothing but noise elimination on line, no advancement in training. Now it's 90 days and done for the bad ones but most are back in the real world by 60 days. Get in and get out and move on..Randy
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  9. #79
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohn View Post
    1) Most important...Stan, I didn't mean to upset you , not my intention...you took my post the wrong way.
    2) Everybody....Stans a good man in trying to help others, cut him some slack
    3) Obedience is key
    What I was trying to say was fix it move on...and yes there are many ways to do things and if they work great if not find another way.I never got my dog of a life time under control with noise and that was years and years and session and session of nothing but noise elimination on line, no advancement in training. Now it's 90 days and done for the bad ones but most are back in the real world by 60 days. Get in and get out and move on..Randy
    Thank you Randy!
    My apologies for misunderstanding.
    As you are aware, many face this problem, hopelessly.
    I am NOT an expert, just trying to give hope.

    I didn't mean to sound as I know it all.
    I am on a constant quest to learn more.
    I am aware I have so much to learn.

    Thanks again!
    Stan b & Elvis

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    I missed Randys advice, all I saw was criticism of how long it took.

    I would love to read Randys procedure.
    Perhaps he will post it.

    !
    Are you serious??
    In one post you credit a number of people for their advice in helping you. The second name listed BY YOU was Randy Bohn

    Vocal Dog at the Line Correction, road kill style
    People who contributed;
    Evan Graham, Randy Bohn, Chris Atkinson, Lanse Brown, Susan Bledsoe, Bon Malari, Ted Shih, Rich Pyka and finally Janie Hoctel and

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