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Thread: A reminder from a year ago

  1. #31
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    We can play dueling expert opinions all day:
    But the real jolt for tax-cutting opponents was that the 03 Bush tax cuts also generated a massive increase in federal tax receipts. From 2004 to 2007, federal tax revenues increased by $785 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history. According to the Treasury Department, individual and corporate income tax receipts were up 40 percent in the three years following the Bush tax cuts. And (bonus) the rich paid an even higher percentage of the total tax burden than they had at any time in at least the previous 40 years. This was news to theNew York Times, whose astonished editorial board could only describe the gains as a “surprise windfall.” http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...deral-revenue/
    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    Finally Obama is not my boy and he is as accountable as Bush is when it comes to tax cuts. .
    So then you agree that the NYT graph you posted is intentionally misleading. Good to have you aboard.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post

    Warren Buffett, in a recent interview with CNBC, offered one of the best quotes heard in all this drama about the debt ceiling:



    "I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told Becky Quick. "You just pass a law that says, that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election."
    Wow! You could safely change the %-age to a reasonably higher number, but that SURELY is a powerful quote. I wonder if that would require a Constitutional amendment?

    After all, whatever we are spending is ultimately the sole decision of those in Congress who voted to spend. And when spending got out of hand, they were the only ones who could stop it ... and chose not to.

    Blame unions, lobbyists, big business, whomever ... but the only ones who vote on the floors of Congress are ... the elected Congress members. Stupid or corrupt? Both?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  3. #33
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    I think many of you are truly NAIVE to Obama's agenda.

    I recommend you read Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."

    Understand where the ONE came from, who he grew up with, who taught him and what his goals are.

    Economic chaos is manifest in his core beleifs.

    Prove me wrong!!

    This guy does not give a rats patoot about any of you, he has a goal and it is not a strong prosperous America as we all know it!!


    RK
    Stan b & Elvis

  4. #34
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    We can play dueling expert opinions all day:



    So then you agree that the NYT graph you posted is intentionally misleading. Good to have you aboard.
    No that's not what I mean at all. I will give you that it is labeled differently and the wording is kinder to Obama. It only changes the wording not the amount and it doesn't change my believe that these tax cuts have added significantly to the nations debt.
    Last edited by cotts135; 07-26-2011 at 01:06 PM.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    I think many of you are truly NAIVE to Obama's agenda.

    I recommend you read Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."

    Understand where the ONE came from, who he grew up with, who taught him and what his goals are.

    Economic chaos is manifest in his core beleifs.

    Prove me wrong!!

    This guy does not give a rats patoot about any of you, he has a goal and it is not a strong prosperous America as we all know it!!


    RK
    Yup, Obama hates America.

    He's a tool of Osama.

    Oh, wait...
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  6. #36
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Yup, Obama hates America.AS we know it now....YES!!!
    He's a tool of Osama.Surprised you feel that way....noone else has stated anything remotely close to that, unless you just felt your case was weak and had to gin some crap up??Oh, wait...

    Just sayin'.......


    RK
    Stan b & Elvis

  7. #37
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Yup, Obama hates America.

    He's a tool

    Oh, wait...
    Fixed it for you
    Bill Davis

  8. #38
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    And you and all that believe that it is just a spending problem are incredibly disillusioned or choose to live in a fantasy world where right wing talking points are treated as gospel.

    Take a look if you would at this chart and notice what item on it has had the biggest effect on the deficit. Looks to me that the largest item in the chart is the Bush tax cuts. Excluding revenue as a component of the deficit and something that needs attention is just not dealing with reality......Period

    http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...tml?ref=sunday

    (The graph is from the CBO not something the NY Times has made up)

    Here is a discussion about that with Bruce Bartlett (the conservative that wingers love to hate) on Hardball yesterday. Gotta love it!

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#43917503
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
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  9. #39
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Here is a discussion about that with Bruce Bartlett (the conservative that wingers love to hate) on Hardball yesterday. Gotta love it!

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#43917503
    Yea but none of them want to believe it, see it doesn't fit in with the agenda the right wing leaders are pushing.
    An interesting point made was about the Capital Gains tax rate. It is no secret that the wealthy benefit significantly more than the poor or middle class when it comes to Capital Gains. The ultra wealthy now pay an effective tax rate lower than the middle class.
    One other point needs to made and that is these tax rates have not produced the jobs the Republicans claimed they have. One of the reasons and not often discussed reasons is that it is far more profitable now to Speculate in the markets than it is to create jobs in some real kind of business. This structural problem is one that needs to be addressed and remedied.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    Yea but none of them want to believe it, see it doesn't fit in with the agenda the right wing leaders are pushing.
    An interesting point made was about the Capital Gains tax rate. It is no secret that the wealthy benefit significantly more than the poor or middle class when it comes to Capital Gains.


    Not necessarily. Today settled on a home for $184,000. The seller had a "profit" of maybe $20,000. She happened to ask about capital gains. Truthfully, I think that $20,000 tax-free to a person selling a house in this price range is pretty significant to them. Paying 35% of $20,000 is probably more painful than paying 35% of $1,000,000 because the one with the smaller home is living much closer to the vest.


    The ultra wealthy now pay an effective tax rate lower than the middle class.

    Heard some figures quoted today on radio: Top 5% of income earners pay something like 90%+ of the total income taxes.

    When we talk about the middle class has anyone adjusted that for COL and inflation from 20 or 30 years ago, for example?


    One other point needs to made and that is these tax rates have not produced the jobs the Republicans claimed they have. One of the reasons and not often discussed reasons is that it is far more profitable now to Speculate in the markets than it is to create jobs in some real kind of business. This structural problem is one that needs to be addressed and remedied.
    I'd be all in favor of ending corporate welfare, i.e. subsidizing industries that do certain things. And then lower the tax rates for corporations equally. Some jobs would be lost, like at the IRS That could help eliminate a lot of lobbyists (more jobs lost there) ... but would save that lobbying $ for corporations which they could use for constructive purposes. Less perks for Congresscritters, too, that way.

    If corporations could plan based on stable tax rates, why would they just sit on $ rather than invest it to make even more $?

    I'm still trying to figure out why people are starving in some parts of the world & we pay farmers not to plant stuff. I was always under the impression that US agriculture was among the most productive. So, if the price of a bushel of "x" can be produced economically here, selling lots of bushels should still be able to make a profit. If the bushels are being produced at a loss, why not plant something else that is in greater demand? Why pay somebody to produce nothing?

    Heard some figures quoted today that were stunning, and makes me very suspect of CBO estimates of programs. In 1965, when Medicare was begun, the prediction was that by 1990 it would cost $12 billion/year. The reality: by 1990 Medicare was costing $110 billion/year (about 9X the original "estimate"). For Medicaid, in its first year, 1966, it cost $4 billion. By 1990, the price tag was $235 billion. Tell me again, how spending is not a problem.

    $235 billion /300,000,000 population is $783/person. That's $3133 for a family of 4 (who are paying taxes) They didn't mention how many people are receiving the Medicaid benefits, but if the recipients numbered 60,000,000 that would mean that amount would be something like $3916/year for EACH recipient. For a single parent with 2 kids, that would be $11,749/year. Now, I ask you, couldn't you buy a pretty good health insurance plan for $979/mo? Why not just have the govt contract with a private health insuror to provide the coverage & maybe save some bucks by having a huge group like that.


    Guess I've got too much time on my hands.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

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