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Finished / Master level testing concepts

5K views 27 replies 18 participants last post by  MooseGooser 
#1 · (Edited)
I am curious to see what handlers see as the most common concepts at finished and master level test...... i.e parrallel to shore, blind through the arc of an old fall....etc...
 
#6 ·
Though I've NEVER seen it the judge could determine the order of pick up. Down south here I see more channel and down the shore water blinds than anything else. I have been seeing a lot of angled water entries as well...especially on the marks. As for land, lots and lots of under the arc stuff and lately depending on the venue, (hrc vs akc) inline marks and hip pockets. Though, I saw a good many indents last year as well.
 
#3 ·
Hey Joe

Short bird - long bird - a personal favorite of mine, as you know
pinched
wipe outs
indented triple
angle entries
 
#4 ·
Out of sequence flyer
blind under the arc
blind through an old fall
blind past a flyer station
Posion Birds
Angler entries
Shoreline blinds
walk up
remote
marks over a crest of a hill where fall is not seen
No See em Channel blind


Handle these are your ready to play with the big dogs
 
#5 ·
For marks, the "flavor of the month" for the past two years has seemed to be two inline marks, with the third off to the side. The order varies, whether it's long inline, side mark, short inline; or long inline, short inline, side mark.

The one we saw a lot of last year was the delayed, interrupted, triple. Mark goes down, no them off it and run a blind, then two more marks go down, now pick up the triple.
 
#7 ·
Have run SEVERAL where you were required to primary select.

Run a few where honor dog retrieved the working dogs GO bird,, then the working dog, after picking up the remaining 2 marks,, was required to run a blind past that go birds area of fall.

We have run TRUE inlines.

Often the Honor dogs handler is shooting at one or more of the working dogs mark. Makes the Honor more difficult.

Common here to run dogs on the rivers, where they need to have a good understanding of current.

Gooser
 
#8 ·
I don't know about HRC, but in AKC the judges cannot direct the order of pickup of marks. They can interrupt the marks with a blind or another mark, but they can't direct the order of pickup.
 
#17 ·
I have run a LOT of HRC Finished test and have never had a one where the judge dictated the order of picking up the marks
 
#10 ·
As an HRC and SRS judge, I don't necessarily have pre-determined concepts before I arrive at the grounds....unless I've seen them recently. I let the grounds determine the test.
 
#12 ·
I know some have said a master/finished concept is for the judge to tell you what order to pick up the bird. For me as a new person who has taken my dog from Junior, Senior, and now in Master think I'd be more comfortable with some one telling me which bird needs to be picked up first. This is how I train- the trainer sets the pick up order. The test I have the hardest time with are the ones that I have to make a decision. I remember having a hard time when given the choice of which blind to run first of the two that were out there. Another time I had a hard time when the judge gave a big area as the start line area. I'm the one that has the problem with master concepts, not my dog.

Terri
 
#13 ·
As far as designating the order of p/u in HRC I have instructed handlers on 2 occasions out of a whole bunch the order of p/u. Even then it was telling the handlers not to pick up a certain bird first - in both cases we did not want the working dog running across the honor dog for that bird. I ran one test where we were instructed not to pick up the go bird first.

Some other finished concepts - two birds in the air at once (following pair), both dogs honoring each other's work (eg. three birds go down, honor dog picks up go bird, working dog picks up the memory birds)

Last couple of assignments, field reps have strongly discouraged inlines - something I am more than happy to oblige.
 
#14 ·
Last couple of assignments, field reps have strongly discouraged inlines - something I am more than happy to oblige.
Agree. Not a test of marking.
 
#15 ·
"Originally Posted by red devil
Last couple of assignments, field reps have strongly discouraged inlines - something I am more than happy to oblige."

While I agree with you on in-lines (generally) on what basis where the reps telling you what kind of test to set up? This is one of the reasons I'm doing less HRC. I don't care for a rep - esp when they are running client dogs - telling me what I can or cannot set up. Their job is to advise if a test is unsafe or in violation of the regs. Not to change a test that they don't want to run. JMHO.
 
#16 ·
As stated they have tried to discourage, not outright forbid. Lord knows I've had my run ins, but I've never had a rep flat out tell me not to run something or had one tell me to incorporate something. On another note, I have never... never had a rep who was running dogs try to influence set ups or anything else that could be taken as improper. I have had reps argue calls that my co judge and I have made on more than one occasion, but that is their right as a handler (can get a little awkward though).

Inlines just make judging harder than it needs to be and for the most part do not tell me much about the dogs under judgement. Tried it once or twice and it came back and bit us on the part you sit on.
 
#19 ·
For you that have run a lot of finished tests, and have NEVER had Judges dictate order of pick up,, How do you expalin that I Have ?? ----
Quite frequently------ And have seen inlines!!!

It IS clearly within the rules!!!!

Now,, I will say that my HRCH , Senior hunter , only has approx 200 points running Finished tests, but I have had discussion with a couple of people that have SEVERAL HUNDRED points on their dogs,, and they agree, selection is common place.

Another reason I scratch my head concerning the consistency of testing throuout the country!

Gooser
 
#20 ·
Is SELECTION not common in a realistic Hunting situation??

To you that Hunt,, have you ever No'd the dog off a dead bird to have it go for a cripple that may escape?? Or a bird that lands in river current,, and is drifting away??
Seems to me its a very desirable trait for a FINISHED Hunting RETRIEVER to posess,,, isnt it?

Gooser
 
#25 ·
As I mentioned order of pickup can be specified by rule but I have never seen it in a test. Have run quite a few poison bird blinds where the diversion could not be picked up until after the blind was ran. If you want to see selection, set up a test that rewards selection (indented triple). My humble opinion is that selection turns a marking test into a control test.

As a judge you specify order and a handle is required to comply. What penalty do you give the team for the handle? The dog may have marked the fall perfectly but wasn't given the opportunity to prove himself. Do you fail for marking and memory if the dog flubs another mark? Or is the specified mark a freebie? If you set up this kind of test you may be required to answer every one of these questions.

If I ever run into specified pick up order, my dogs are trained for it. I will run it and thank the judges. My preference is simply a challenging marking test and that can be accomplished without specifying order (go watch the Grand).

Just my opinion
Mark Land
 
#26 ·
As I mentioned order of pickup can be specified by rule but I have never seen it in a test. Have run quite a few poison bird blinds where the diversion could not be picked up until after the blind was ran. If you want to see selection, set up a test that rewards selection (indented triple). My humble opinion is that selection turns a marking test into a control test.

As a judge you specify order and a handle is required to comply. What penalty do you give the team for the handle? The dog may have marked the fall perfectly but wasn't given the opportunity to prove himself. Do you fail for marking and memory if the dog flubs another mark? Or is the specified mark a freebie? If you set up this kind of test you may be required to answer every one of these questions.

If I ever run into specified pick up order, my dogs are trained for it. I will run it and thank the judges. My preference is simply a challenging marking test and that can be accomplished without specifying order (go watch the Grand).

Just my opinion
Mark Land
Fish

Like you said thats YOUR preference!!

The original post asked about different concepts that may be seen in AKC HRC tests.
The concept of Primary selection is one that MAY be seen at HRC Finished tests.

Some judges on a particular weekend, might want a pure marking test. others may want a breaking tests, still others will test control.

Your PREFERENCE doesnt really enter the picture of what MAY be expected of your dog in the different regions tests and judges,, now does it!

I dont need to go to the Grand,, I can Read the rule book, and hopefully prepare the dog.

Gooser
 
#28 ·
That question was brought up in the seminar I attended about the rule for a seasoned dog possibly being tested for tracking or quartering..

The answere was that it is pretty much left up to testing that in the "Upland" hunt instead of a "regular" hunt test.


I will say though I did run one seasoned test where the dog,, on the walk up,, was required to be out in front of you "working" the field.

Gooser
 
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