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Thread: Economy in Shambles?

  1. #1
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    Default Economy in Shambles?

    Market plunges and the only question is how far. Now just wait til interest rates rise. Oh I'm sure the libs(Progressives) will blame Bush or the EA Party or whoever. Remember Buzz when I said you ain't seen nothing yet?? well do you think it might be starting. High unemployment, high inflation, high interest rates,j change we can count on??

    where are you Buz, Sambo and all the otherKeynesian progressives. I hope I am wrong but I do wonder if "WE AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET'

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    While the latest fiasco in Washington is suddenly being understood by the 'players' on Wall Street, I think the world situation has a better understanding of the money ...or lack of...situation. Those at 'risk' are deciding they've squeezed as much blood out of that turnip as they can.

    It's like continuing to double down on the crap table numbers after the dice thrower has made 7 passes. Might be time to pull back some of those 'stacks' of chips, and pocket the gains that you've racked up to this point. Better to lament what you coulda made as you watch 4 more passes being rolled, then to discover one throw too late how much you just lost, because you became addicted to the "action".

    Anyone continuing to 'play' this game, when the odds are becoming beyond believability, can only kick themselves if they find they are in the tank, and couldn't read the obvious soon enough.

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    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Market plunges and the only question is how far. Now just wait til interest rates rise. Oh I'm sure the libs(Progressives) will blame Bush or the EA Party or whoever. Remember Buzz when I said you ain't seen nothing yet?? well do you think it might be starting. High unemployment, high inflation, high interest rates,j change we can count on??

    where are you Buz, Sambo and all the otherKeynesian progressives. I hope I am wrong but I do wonder if "WE AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET'


    Your boys have been making predictions for years now.

    Where is hyper inflation?

    Where are the surging interest rates?

    What a joke.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    I was just reading David Frum this morning. At least one conservative is coming to his senses.

    http://www.frumforum.com/could-it-be...ies-were-right

    Were Our Enemies Right?

    In February 1982, Susan Sontag made a fierce challenge to a left-wing audience gathered at New York’s Town Hall:

    Imagine, if you will, someone who read only the Reader’s Digest between 1950 and 1970, and someone in the same period who read only The Nation or The New Statesman. Which reader would have been better informed about the realities of Communism? The answer, I think, should give us pause. Can it be that our enemies were right?

    Posing that question won Sontag only boos from an audience that the New York Times described as “startled.” Yet the question has only gained power over the intervening years. It contributed to the rise of a healthier, more realistic left much less tempted to make excuses for “progressive” dictatorships than the left of the last generation. If Hugo Chavez has any defenders on the contemporary American left, I haven’t heard of them.

    Think of Susan Sontag as you absorb the horrifying revised estimates of the collapse of 2008 from the Commerce Department. Two years ago, Commerce estimated the decline of the US economy at -0.5% in the third quarter of 2008 and -3.8% in the fourth quarter. It now puts the damage at -3.7% and -8.9%: Great Depression territory.

    Those estimates make intuitive sense as we assess the real-world effect of the crisis: the jobs lost, the homes foreclosed, the retirements shattered. When people tell me that I’ve changed my mind too much about too many things over the past four years, I can only point to the devastation wrought by this crisis and wonder: How closed must your thinking be if it isn’t affected by a disaster of such magnitude? And in fact, almost all of our thinking has been somehow affected: hence the drift of so many conservatives away from what used to be the mainstream market-oriented Washington Consensus toward Austrian economics and Ron Paul style hard-money libertarianism. The ground they and I used to occupy stands increasingly empty.

    If I can’t follow where most of my friends have gone, it is because I keep hearing Susan Sontag’s question in my ears. Or rather, a revised and updated version of that question:

    Imagine, if you will, someone who read only the Wall Street Journal editorial page between 2000 and 2011, and someone in the same period who read only the collected columns of Paul Krugman. Which reader would have been better informed about the realities of the current economic crisis? The answer, I think, should give us pause. Can it be that our enemies were right?

    And this:

    http://www.frumforum.com/if-the-cons...ut-the-economy

    If Conservatives Were Right About the Economy

    Further to yesterday’s post about the respective economic acumen of the Wall Street Journal editorial page vs. Prof. Paul Krugman:

    My conservative friends argue that the policies of Barack Obama are responsible for the horrifying length and depth of the economic crisis.

    Question: Which policies?

    Obama’s only tax increases – those contained in the Affordable Care Act – do not go into effect until 2014. Personal income tax rates and corporate tax rates are no higher today than they have been for the past decade. The payroll tax has actually been cut by 2 points. Total federal tax collections have dropped by 4 points of GDP since 2007, from 18+% to 14+%, the lowest rate since the Truman administration.

    If so minded, you could describe Barack Obama as the biggest tax cutter in American history.

    We have not seen a major surge in federal regulation, at least by the usual rough metrics: the page count of the Federal Register has risen by less than 5% since George W. Bush’s last year in office. Trade remains as free as it was a decade ago.

    While the Affordable Care Act itself will eventually have major economic consequences, most of its provisions remain only impending.

    Energy prices have surged, but that’s hardly a response to administration policies. Conservatives complain about restrictions on drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, but on a planet that produces 63 million barrels of oil per day, a few thousand more or less from the Gulf will not much budge the price of oil. Rising oil prices are a story about Chinese and Indian consumption and Middle Eastern political instability, not about US drilling or lack thereof.

    The Dodd-Frank bill does somewhat curtail the activities of some banks and investment firms. But is it seriously argued that this could be the cause?

    Conservatives complain about excess government spending. Fine. But isn’t the evil of excess government spending supposed to be inflation rather than recession? And where’s the inflation?

    There’s a strong case for condemning Barack Obama for the things he might have done, but did not do. He might have cut payroll taxes more and faster. He might have pushed for more expansionary Federal Reserve governors. He might have designed a better stimulus. All true. But the things he did do? Texas Gov. Rick Perry today urges us to believe that the economy is gripped by the worst slump since the Great Depression because Obama spoke disrespectfully of the owners of private jets. To which I can only say: Really? That’s the indictment? Really?
    Thank God we have the tea partiers to drive us even deeper into the ditch...
    Last edited by Buzz; 08-04-2011 at 01:45 PM.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I was just reading David Frum this morning. At least one conservative is coming to his senses.

    http://www.frumforum.com/could-it-be...ies-were-right




    And this:

    http://www.frumforum.com/if-the-cons...ut-the-economy



    Thank God we have the tea partiers to drive us even deeper into the ditch...
    So Buzz, is the only way out of this debt crisis to spend more money we don't have??

    I mean the debt now exceeds the GDP, so if you took every dollar earned it still would not balance the books!!


    Tell how you would make it work??


    Standing by.........


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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Your boys have been making predictions for years now.

    Where is hyper inflation?

    Where are the surging interest rates?

    What a joke.
    You can't see inflation, not hyperinflation yet but inflation. Take a look at commodities which you said was cyclic in the short term. Gold, silver,copper,cotton,corn,soybeans just to name a few. Energy, food, transportation, have you bought any parts for your car, truck, lawn mower, other small engines. Have you bought any cloths, paid for any healthcare, school tuition,property taxes? Maybe you haven't but many of us have. About 4 months ago when the market was about at it's highest since 2008, I told you that we ain't seen anything yet but you would before jan. 2012. Jan 2012 hasn't gotten here yet and I am not sure you have seen anything yet. THE NUMBERS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

    Typical liberal excuse, blame the Tea Party Congressmen(women). Oh yes they have participated in limiting the growth of the government for the next 10 years to between 7 and 8% while the economy might be growing at about 1% if you can believe the current administration. They seem to give growth figures and constantly revise them downward. What else has the Tea Party supporters done. How about giving facts instead of accusations.

    By the way, I don't have to read every liberal editorial and regurgitate them. I can look at the numbers and they don't look good.

    Just to give some perspective, if the interest rate goes up 1%, the interest on the CURRENT DEBT will increase a 140 billion give or take a few billion. Seems lunacy to talk in terms of "give a take a few billion" as if it were a few dollars.

    Again " WHAT HAS THE TEA PARTY DONE TO CAUSE THIS" Give FACTS.

    Regards

  7. #7
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Just to give some perspective, if the interest rate goes up 1%, the interest on the CURRENT DEBT will increase a 140 billion give or take a few billion. Seems lunacy to talk in terms of "give a take a few billion" as if it were a few dollars.


    Regards

    Did you happen to notice treasury yields fell to a record low today?

    I have a very simple view of a billion. I divide a billion by 300 million people. This tells me that every billion spent corresponds to $3.33 for every man, woman, and child in the USA. So, when they talk in billions, a little quick math gives me perspective.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Buzz,
    The person you quote is wrong about Obumma not having any tax increases yet, so I will need their crap no further than that.
    Fact: Federal tax on cigs has been increased and that has been a fact for a while.
    Fact : 10% tax on going to the tanning salon is already in effect.
    Those are 2 off the top of my head, so YES BUMMA HAS INCREASED TAXES!
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Did you happen to notice treasury yields fell to a record low today?

    I have a very simple view of a billion. I divide a billion by 300 million people. This tells me that every billion spent corresponds to $3.33 for every man, woman, and child in the USA. So, when they talk in billions, a little quick math gives me perspective.
    you might figure that on those that ACTUALLY pay net taxes. that excludes about 50% of the population or more if you count dependants ant then add the gov workers who only pay taxes out of the tases collected from the private sector.

    Yes and what does that matter it is OPM(other peoples' money)

    still no answer about what the Tea Party has done to cause this. Maybe it is because THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO CAUSE THIS!!!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139 View Post
    Buzz,
    The person you quote is wrong about Obumma not having any tax increases yet, so I will need their crap no further than that.
    Fact: Federal tax on cigs has been increased and that has been a fact for a while.
    Fact : 10% tax on going to the tanning salon is already in effect.
    Those are 2 off the top of my head, so YES BUMMA HAS INCREASED TAXES!
    And look what happened! The smokers and tanners can't afford to spend money and the world economy is on the rocks!
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
    (Esprit's Power Play x Trumarc's Lean Cuisine)
    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
    (Clubmead's Road Warrior x Oakdale Whitewater Devil Dog)
    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
    (Two River's Lucky Willie x Moneybird's Black Magic Marker)

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