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Thread: The Future of American Cars????

  1. #11
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    The amount of petroleum is finite. They ain't making any more. There is some untapped sources but they are going to be very expensive and difficult to reach.

    We can keep sending our sons and daughters, as well as treasure to war to protect our sources OR we can get our scientific folks cracking to find a solution. Defense of the gas guzzler is going to bury us. The party is coming to an end.
    And trifling in solar and electric powered cars is a WASTE of taxpayers money!!


    Open drilling to companies that earmark a certain % of profits towards R&D of new alternative fuel sources and offer tax incentives as well.
    I am not a huge fan of Gov't. regulation, but in order to get these tax breaks and drilling rights this research would need to be overveiwed as to the validity of the efforts.

    Short term, fossil fuel prices at the pump go down, jobe are created instantly and long term we find an answer due to financial incentive.

    You know.....good old capitallism!!!!

    If I can think of a plan like this, and you all think I am pretty simple, why can't Ivy League elitists???
    You know who I mean....those folks who have spent their entire lives sitting in classrooms and now run the country!!!!

    Just askin'......


    RK
    Last edited by road kill; 09-03-2011 at 10:09 AM.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    The amount of petroleum is finite. They ain't making any more. There is some untapped sources but they are going to be very expensive and difficult to reach.

    We can keep sending our sons and daughters, as well as treasure to war to protect our sources OR we can get our scientific folks cracking to find a solution. Defense of the gas guzzler is going to bury us. The party is coming to an end.
    The view "that they ain't making it anymore" is now in dispute. In fact it has been argued that there is more hydrocarbon(petrolium) released into the oceans naturally presently than there is from human oil spills.

  3. #13
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    The view "that they ain't making it anymore" is now in dispute. In fact it has been argued that there is more hydrocarbon(petrolium) released into the oceans naturally presently than there is from human oil spills.
    Forgive me for being skeptical. Hydrocarbons released in the ocean are not going to give us relief under any foreseeable technology.

    There is some interesting work going on in methane hydrates. Applications for transportation is still a long way off.

    Sooner or later the market will reflect reality. Driving around in a tennis court with two sofas is going to cost too dang much.

    Having grown up in Michigan in the 50's, I love big cars as much as the next guy. But, like the dinosaur, they are the thing of the past.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Forgive me for being skeptical. Hydrocarbons released in the ocean are not going to give us relief under any foreseeable technology.

    There is some interesting work going on in methane hydrates. Applications for transportation is still a long way off.

    Sooner or later the market will reflect reality. Driving around in a tennis court with two sofas is going to cost too dang much.

    Having grown up in Michigan in the 50's, I love big cars as much as the next guy. But, like the dinosaur, they are the thing of the past.
    Sounds like you are talking about wind and solar energy. You think?

  5. #15
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Sounds like you are talking about wind and solar energy. You think?
    No, I'm talking about the coming end of petroleum. Now what replaces it is an attempt to predict the future. I am only as good at that as the next guy.

    The problem with wind and solar is that it is not available 24/7. And you can't put it in your gas tank.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  6. #16
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post

    There is some interesting work going on in methane hydrates.

    I think he's referring to those recent studies where they're using panda poop to generate power.
    Julie R., Hope Springs Farm
    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    No, I'm talking about the coming end of petroleum. Now what replaces it is an attempt to predict the future. I am only as good at that as the next guy.

    The problem with wind and solar is that it is not available 24/7. And you can't put it in your gas tank.
    If oil is finite then why tell people they can't drill for it and they can't make engined for it? If solar and wind are cost competitive with oil then why take other's people's money to invest in it. tell you what YOU put our money in wind and solar without government subsities and I will invest in oil and internal combustion engines. Get the government out of the way and LET'S SEE WHO IS SUCCESSFUL. Put another way, I WILL PULL MY OWN WAGON AND YOU PULL YOUR OWN. Without the gov. to subsidize wind and solar you are broke.

    I love the line "Iam from the gov. and I am here to help you." Again JUST PULL YOUR OWN WAGON.

  8. #18
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    If oil is finite then why tell people they can't drill for it and they can't make engined for it? If solar and wind are cost competitive with oil then why take other's people's money to invest in it. tell you what YOU put our money in wind and solar without government subsities and I will invest in oil and internal combustion engines. Get the government out of the way and LET'S SEE WHO IS SUCCESSFUL. Put another way, I WILL PULL MY OWN WAGON AND YOU PULL YOUR OWN. Without the gov. to subsidize wind and solar you are broke.

    I love the line "Iam from the gov. and I am here to help you." Again JUST PULL YOUR OWN WAGON.
    Whoa there, Cary! Go find a wind/solar advocate to vent your wrath. I don't believe they are the magic bullet.

    You can drill til you're tired of it, but, eventually you won't want to pay the price for petroleum..
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  9. #19
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Sarge, I don't think we can "defend" the gasoline engine since it is dependent upon a finite fuel source (as you say, finite within the technology we would anticipate in the foreseeable future).

    I think Julie's panda poo article is really interesting. Methanol is not cost-effective, but bamboo grows "wild" (problem is stopping it from growing once it starts!). And there may be a clue in the panda digestive enzymes that could make it a viable biofuel. And one that would require only a modest modification of the internal combustion engine?

    I don't think that solar or wind are viable for cars, but somebody should come up with a way to make them viable for home uses. Geo-thermal is also another concept, and that one is constant, unaffected by external conditions.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  10. #20
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Sarge, I don't think we can "defend" the gasoline engine since it is dependent upon a finite fuel source (as you say, finite within the technology we would anticipate in the foreseeable future).

    I think Julie's panda poo article is really interesting. Methanol is not cost-effective, but bamboo grows "wild" (problem is stopping it from growing once it starts!). And there may be a clue in the panda digestive enzymes that could make it a viable biofuel. And one that would require only a modest modification of the internal combustion engine?

    I don't think that solar or wind are viable for cars, but somebody should come up with a way to make them viable for home uses. Geo-thermal is also another concept, and that one is constant, unaffected by external conditions.
    Geothermal isn't without its problems. Most of the geothermal is produced from wet rock areas. That means there is sufficient water present to transfer the energy to a power plant. Sources of wet rock geothermal are generally limited geographically. One problem not generally acknowledged with geothermal is that heated water from geothermal sources can contain some nasty stuff like arsenides and acids, like hydrofluoric, sulfuric,etc. Not only do you not want to have this stuff loose in the environment but it can be a major engineering headache. As time goes by geothermal plants tend to cool down their heat source.

    Sandia Labs did some work in the 80's on dry geothermal. It was stated back then we had enough dry geothermal potential to power the entire country for 400 years. They did a pilot plant which worked well but when they set up a full scale plant, it was a bust.

    Panda pooh? Were you around in the 70's when hippies were running around in old school buses powered by chicken crap?

    A high school classmate is a nuclear engineer. He made an interesting point. A little bit of hay will propel a 1000 pound horse. Maybe some day we will just throw a bail of hay in the trunk before we head to the grocery store.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 09-03-2011 at 06:28 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

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