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Thread: Paul Krugman op ed on 9-11

  1. #11
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    If the terrorists wanted Saddam taken out, then you could say that they won on that point.
    No, I'm saying that the "fear" that you referred to is a win for the terrorists. After-all, they are called terrorists for a reason.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    quote

    As for Krugman, more today:


    Quote:
    More About the 9/11 Anniversary


    It looks as if I should say a bit more about yesterdayís anniversary. So:

    The fact is that the two years or so after 9/11 were a terrible time in America Ė a time of political exploitation and intimidation, culminating in the deliberate misleading of the nation into the invasion of Iraq. Itís probably worth pointing out that Iím not saying anything now that I wasnít saying in real time back then, when Bush had a sky-high approval rating and any criticism was denounced as treason. And thereís nothing Iíve done in my life of which Iím more proud.

    quote

    How I remember yappers like Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly and the rest of the radical right calling anyone that didn't support the invasion of Iraq, traitors! O'Reilly calling for a boycott of all things French. Looks to me like the the French were right about it not being a good idea. And, all the years Hannity justified the war by claiming that Iraq is the front on terror. Crazed, all of them!
    ďThe end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.Ē ĖThomas Jefferson

  3. #13
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    No, I'm saying that the "fear" that you referred to is a win for the terrorists. After-all, they are called terrorists for a reason.
    Not sure what your point is, Buzz. Yes, the purpose of terrorism is to instill fear. And they succeeded in doing that. Brave people were in fear on 9/11. With good reason.

    Did an element of that fear carry over into what was an ill-advised move on Saddam? Quite possible. There could be no question that Saddam was not above using terroristic methods if he could. If he would use chemical weapons within his own country, it is not unreasonable to think he would use them elsewhere; and any other methods that he could to further whatever his agenda might have been.

    Americans are not used to living with such fear, but they can adapt. The Israelis have adapted. A Muslim can live in Israel with less fear than a Jew would live with in many Muslim countries. I believe that while some Israeli actions may have been questionable over the years, for the most part they have maintained their humanity in spite of the real fears that they have to deal with. No, I'm not Jewish
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    That wasn't his 9-11 op-ed. It's a 9-11 post to his blog.

    I think that anyone who denies that a bunch of sick bass terds used the event to drive wedges rather than unify the country is living in a state of denial.
    You just described Krugman to a tee.

  5. #15
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Regrettably the US still lives in a state of fear. If you don't believe so then explain the exponential increase in surveillance in this country or how about the uproar when it was suggested that Khalid Sheik Mohammad be tried in a civilian court in lower Manhattan even when other countries who have been attacted by terrorists continue to try these criminals in their civilian courts Britain and Spain just to name a few.
    Fear is paralyzing us and the continue erosion of our civil liberties in pursuit of the unachievable goal of total security is something that all of us should be concerned with.
    At least on tonight's news Janet Napolitano is looking into ending the ridiculous pat downs of young children at our country's airports. It's a start
    Last edited by cotts135; 09-13-2011 at 07:15 PM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    I don't think we are "paralyzed by fear" at all. Actually, I think Joe Average isn't as fearful now as right after 9/11 ... that's why we complain about airport security, etc.

    As for trying Khalid in Lower Manhattan, the symbolism for AQ could have been a reason for AQ to plan something awful for the trial. New Yorkers shouldn't have to be made a target for something like that. And, surely, security in NY would be more difficult than at Gitmo.

    The fact that our culture would rather sacrifice everyone's civil liberties for the protection of the same liberties for a small ethnic group, is simply that ... our culture of non-discrimination.

    Can you imagine if those responsible for this type of security did NOT do these things, and another plane were to be used as a terrorist weapon? Wouldn't you be just as angry?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  7. #17
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    Regrettably the US still lives in a state of fear. If you don't believe so then explain the exponential increase in surveillance in this country or how about the uproar when it was suggested that Khalid Sheik Mohammad be tried in a civilian court in lower Manhattan even when other countries who have been attacted by terrorists continue to try these criminals in their civilian courts Britain and Spain just to name a few.
    Fear is paralyzing us and the continue erosion of our civil liberties in pursuit of the unachievable goal of total security is something that all of us should be concerned with.
    At least on tonight's news Janet Napolitano is looking into ending the ridiculous pat downs of young children at our country's airports. It's a start
    Average Americans are not afraid. Idiot politicians want to keep us afraid to keep us under their thumb. Easier to control that way. Most of the security BS going on in the airports and elsewhere is just for show and is more of a knee jerk reaction than pro-active. We are wasting billions of dollars searching little old ladies and kids while muhammed walks right on the plane. By the way... I have a step-son that works for TSA... he and I argue about this too... But he can't deny that what they do is mostly Politcally Correct BS.
    Last edited by huntinman; 09-13-2011 at 10:23 PM.
    Bill Davis

  8. #18
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Average Americans are not afraid. Idiot politicians want to keep us afraid to keep us under their thumb. Easier to control that way. Most of the security BS going on in the airports and elsewhere is just for show and is more of a knee jerk reaction than pro-active. We are wasting billions of dollars searching little old ladies and kids while muhammed walks right on the plane. By the way... I have a step-son that works for TSA... he and I argue about this too... But he can't deny that what they do is mostly Politcally Correct BS.
    Your first two sentences I agree with 100%.
    What happens though, if these guys have a successful attack and kill some Americans? The uproar would be deafening and fingers would be pointing in every direction trying to figure out who to blame.
    I can't even imagine what proposals would be made in the interest of security. This is where the terrorists win. It would be far better to take an accurate risk assessment of the true dangers these dirtbags present and base a security policy on that. We have overreacted and now find ourselves on a slippery slope where every perceived threat posed by terrorists result in another loss of Freedoms and Liberties' ideals by the way that our founding Fathers thought important enough that they risked their own life's to champion.
    Modern day America is now finding itself inching more and more to the old Soviet Union and East Germany policies of secrecy and survellaince. All brutal dictatorships and repressive governments use secrecy, fear and surveillance to maintain their power and control over their citizenry. We are not at that point yet, obviously, but it is important that we understand what freedom and liberty is truly about and how those two ideals made us the greatest country ever.
    Last edited by cotts135; 09-14-2011 at 06:23 AM.

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